Terminal Ugliness

[bam]

Be nice. Until it's time not to be nice.  

[ALStripes17]

It's not supposed to be a pi$$ing contest. The coaches want to bait you into saying something confrontational so they look like the good guy.

Have thick skin, and the most simple thing you can say is absolutely nothing other than "Play."

Perception is everything and if you are legitimately trying to get a game back on track and a coach won't allow it, then you are much more justified (and seen as a good guy by most) to send him to the parking lot.

Batters that say something about the zone get a gift. It's called 'swing away.' If there is a slim chance the pitch could be called a strike on an apocalyptic day, I'm getting it. They'll understand one day (hopefully), but they sure as heck aren't going to listen to a life lesson in between pitches and change their ways.

When you suck, you suck haha ;)

[immaculate1976]

Be nice. Until it's time not to be nice.  

 

 

yeah but what if somebody calls my momma a whore?

[grayhawk]

Be nice. Until it's time not to be nice.

yeah but what if somebody calls my momma a whore?

Is she?

[jkumpire]

I greatly appreciate the responses men, and it looks like we are about to put this topic to bed.

 

Last two days I've worked a tournament several levels above the one we have discussed, and it is amazing. Managers ask questions before arguments, players find the zone and play from there, and if you get rang up on a 3rd strike, they head back to the dugout to complain there or get ready to play. F2's usually know how to fram pitches or ask where a pitch missed.  It is almost real baseball.   

[ricka56]

yeah but what if somebody calls my momma a whore?

 

Let me guess...you were an F7 in your playing days.

[umpstu]

Stu,

 

Without going into detail, the team whose coach I ejected lost the previous day 16-2 and blamed me for being beat, and there had been other cases of USC during the game. When the coach of the team who won the game showed up at the plate meeting, refused to shake me hand and rolled his eyes as my crew walked to the plate, I'm not sure I could say anything to calm things down.

 

 

Wolf,

 

We had already gone past the "That's enough" stage already.  Every time I didn't call a pitch they didn't like, I was hearing dugout comments, and we had gone past the 'warn, ignore' stage at that point (already been tried). Probably I did say too much at that point, but he's ten feet away shouting in the direction of the stands. 

 

All,

 

Thanks for your comments so far. Maybe I was too harsh.

So don't say anything other than the bare minimum.  You put both coaches on the defensive from what you just said.  You can't quote silence. 

 

I umpire a team whose coach and I have a long history of not getting along.  He always attempts to shake my hand with his left hand, so I don't bother extending my hand for a handshake. I also don't come across as anything but professional at the plate meeting and my dealings with everybody on the field.  This includes when I arrive at the field and check in with both coaches.  "Hello. How are you doing?  I'll be at the plate about ten minutes before game time. Any questions?"

[umpstu]

 

Maven,

 

I respect many of your posts here but I think you are mistaken. Inviting the head coach out for a conversation is offering the HC a free shot at you, because the last thing he will do is talk about his assistant's behavior.

Thank you, and you might be right. I expect that whether I ask to speak to the coach to communicate the EJ will depend on how much of a howler monkey he has been to that point.

 

I try to be charitable (attributing the best possible motives to others) and respectful for as long as I possibly can. Then they get, "that's enough" or "knock it off," and if they still don't get it, they can go. Not that I become disrespectful, but you can't really treat someone respectfully who's not there.

 

"Hey coach. I need to talk with you about something I spotted on your lineup".  Then calmly explain to him what is going on with his assistant.  He is the head coach and deserves an explanation, even though he might not like what he is hearing.  

 

I want a pet Howler Monkey for Christmas.  I would imagine you would have to smuggle them in from a rain forest in the amazon and it would be very costly.

[umpstu]

 

Be nice. Until it's time not to be nice.  

 

 

yeah but what if somebody calls my momma a whore?

 

What's her rates? (You started this, not us).

[umpstu]

JKUMPIRE, this is for you and give an honest answer.  Are all of the tournaments you umpire this way or were you possibly just having a terrible tournament as an umpire?  It happens to us all at one time or another.  If everybody in the park is barking at you about your zone then it may be you.   I don't know what level of ball you do, but usually both catchers will probably have the same opinion of your zone if you are struggling.  I'll listen to them, but in return they have to listen to me and respect goes both ways.  Don't let them be belligerent about it and make sure to acknowledge them. This might ruffle a few feathers on here, but it has worked for me in the past.  Also make sure these are catchers you know and trust. 

 

 And as far as your BU talking about your strike zone, man I would just go off on him after the game.  That can't happen. Ever.

[jkumpire]

Stu,

 

1. I have a post game with every umpire I work with. I recieved compliments about my zone in every game I worked in the tournament in the locker room after the game. I felt I had a very consistent zone in every plate game I did, and yes, I know when I have a bad plate game. It wasn't during this tournament.

 

2. I had one F2 say something to me once in the tournament. I make it a point to start a dialogue with every F2 I work with, this F2 sad nothing to me the whole event, even when I asked him his first name in the top of the 1st inning of the 1st game I worked with him.

 

3. I did not hear many complaints from the stands about my zone, and I never do. When I do I ignore them, when do fans matter?    They are to be ignored.

 

4. Again I have no problem with the 1B umpire suggesting to a non-trained coach (who is a parent) not to get angry and yell about a pitch call when everyone saw him duck the pitch! It is hard to say far over this kid went on a hanging breaking ball down the middle of the plate, he deeply bent his kness and his back to lower himself. It was that obvious.

 

He's not getting into my zone, he's trying to save someone from real trouble. Sadly the person didn't take his advice.  I really do not know what to say about this; after the game I said to my crew why I called it a strike; everyone agreed that's what he did, it was that obvious. That's when I found out what he said. 

 

The point of the matter is that he marched out to the 1B coaches box angry before I called the pitch, he was angry after the pitch and made a vocal fool out of himself. I probably should not have yelled back at him as loudly as I did *and I somewhat regret saying what I said), but he deserved to be dumped when he came back out. 

[maineump]

Foolish question from a guy who doesn't work these tournaments? We don't have them where I live/work.

 

If they seem to be such a problem, why do you call 'em? Is the money that good?

 

Seems to me that these TD just want the money and expect the umpires to do whatever they say. Once you get the line-up cards it is the umpires game. NO UMPIRE should have to put up with that sh%t. Would you do the same in a HS or college game?

[StrikeDavis]

@maineump:  The money can be very good and if you can work several games a day you can bring in a pretty large sum by the end of the weekend.  For example, there was an 18U tournament in my area that paid $75 per game.  Games were 2 hours or 7 innings.  They assigned the games in sets of 2 or 4.  Not all TDs just want the money and expect the umps to do whatever they say.  Some do, and I avoid those tournaments.   

[MPLSMatt]

Men,

 

Several of you have noted that my loud command "I don't really care what you think, get in the dugout" was too harsh, or baiting, I partly agree with you. Nobody wants to hear an umpire get into such a loud disagreement, especially with the age of kids this tournament was. 

 

OTOH, when you are dealing with people who have no idea how to approach an umpire, or question a call in any other way than throwing a match into a can of gas, what do you want me to say or do? Maven had one idea that I don't think would work, other suggestions are appreciated.

 

Sadly with this team and one or two others I saw in the tournament, the players do exactly what the coaches do. If they see gestures or yelling by their coaches at the umpire, or start complaining about every pitch they don't like (which this team did) do you start dumping players left and right, or use a sharp word to calm them down,or just ignore them until you end up with a real mess on your hands? The sharp words were meant to try and end the bad behavior before the assistant coach dumped himself. He didn't take a hint.  

 

One last point: Earlier in this tournament I sturck a kid out on a corner pitch. His response: He turned around and said "OH My God!" Needless to say I brought him back to look at me and said, "Do not say that again", or words to that effect, just loud enough for him to hear. Two innings later I handed his HC a bat at the end of the inning as he came down from the 3B coach's box. I told the coach quietly (who also an umpire btw) what he did,  what I said to him and asked him to take care of it. His first words were, "Well, I trust his zone completely." 

 

My quiet response was, "Coach, I have a little more experience than him in calling strikes, please take care of it." He didn't, because his attitude was that it was his player and his player never makes mistakes . 

 

That is the kind of crap too many umpires have to put up with, and I don't just swallow my tongue and take it any more. 

 

I don't think that anyone says that you have to just eat this comment, but a pointed: "we are not talking about balls and strikes today" or if he's as uneducated as you say "this is your final warning, I will not tolerate any comments about balls and strikes" is a lot better than "I don't care..."  and it looks better in an ejection report.   I've been there and made many similar comments (my mind always says be calm and professional, but it took me a while to get my mouth to cooperate) in the heat of the moment.  

 

That said, you were walking into a hornets nest and the only way to not send someone home was to be a punching bag - good on you for not doing that.  If a coach refused to shake my hand at the plate meeting, I think I'd say something along the lines of "coach, lets not start the game on that foot" or something like that.  He might be dumb enough to say something to get himself tossed before the game even begins. 

[FleasOf1000Camels]

PS:  I'm not sure I like your "unsportsmanlike behavior will not be tolerated" line at pre-game.

I think it sounds a bit harsh, as if you're actually EXPECTING it.

Here's my line:

"A reminder, gentlemen...as head coach I consider you responsible for the conduct and sportsmanship behavior of your players and coaches."

[zm1283]

Well, I don't know about anyone else here, but I don't appreciate any partner of mine addressing balls and strikes with a coach.

 

He probably should've been run earlier.  That can come back to bite you in the a$$ later.  It did.

 

I'd scratch that tournament from further use of your time.

 

If you're working the plate and I'm at first and some jackhole assistant coaching first starts running his mouth out of range for you to hear, I might tell him to knock it off. If he gets that loud, you're going to be able to hear him and deal with it. If I were the plate guy I wouldn't have a problem if that's all my partner said. Just my opinion though.

[zm1283]

I am working a tournament in a certain area of some significance for that area. I am on the plate for the same team for the 3rd time in 3 days this time in an elimination game against a local rival. OBR.  My Plate meeting went like this: "Good afternoon gentlemen, sorry you have to play each other before the championship game. Have your on-deck hitters help out with foul balls behind the plate. Unsportsmanlike behavior will not be tolerated.  Good luck men."

 

I probably wouldn't throw that last line in there like others have said. It probably wouldn't have changed how this all played out though.

 

Score is 6-3 home, 1 out 5th inning of 7. Home team batter on 1-1 pitch squats down and ducks curve ball over the plate. Of course I immediately call strike.  He grounds out to F6 the next pitch. 1B coach who has already been told by my 1B umpire why the strike was called and to calm down walks back down toward bench beside/behind me and yells loudly enough for stands to hear. "We need some consistency from you back here Blue!" 

 

Goodbye. If you don't choose to eject him.....

 

I almost ejected him then, but instead loudly replied, "I really don't care what you think coach, get in the dugout." After telling his manager (who most everyone has trouble with in the tournament) what supposedly happened, the manager walks out of his dugout to where the two people running the tournament are, and spends the next next half-inning gesturing and complaining about me, while his team gives up 2 runs.

 

We can all second guess others' choice of words in a heated situation, but since you asked....I wouldn't have used that line. I would have just told him to knock it off and get back in the dugout. If he's dumb enough to respond to that, then run him.

 

Next inning, 1B coach walked around to go to 1B, and loudly says to me "Well, the good thing about this is once we are done here we are going to a league in (new town named) next year." 

 

I immediately responded: "Well, you can start heading that way right now!" and dumped him. 

 

Good job. 

 

Game ends later, 7 innings in 1:30 or so, team who had their assistant dumped wins 6-5.

 

Q1: Was this a justifiable ejection, or was I a p***** d*** and several other things I was called by the coach after i dumped him? Should I just have ignored the comments?

 

Do not ignore an assistant who talks to you like that. You very well could have dumped him after the comment about consistency.

 

*************

[zm1283]

Men,

 

Several of you have noted that my loud command "I don't really care what you think, get in the dugout" was too harsh, or baiting, I partly agree with you. Nobody wants to hear an umpire get into such a loud disagreement, especially with the age of kids this tournament was. 

 

OTOH, when you are dealing with people who have no idea how to approach an umpire, or question a call in any other way than throwing a match into a can of gas, what do you want me to say or do? Maven had one idea that I don't think would work, other suggestions are appreciated.

 

Sadly with this team and one or two others I saw in the tournament, the players do exactly what the coaches do. If they see gestures or yelling by their coaches at the umpire, or start complaining about every pitch they don't like (which this team did) do you start dumping players left and right, or use a sharp word to calm them down,or just ignore them until you end up with a real mess on your hands? The sharp words were meant to try and end the bad behavior before the assistant coach dumped himself. He didn't take a hint.  

 

One last point: Earlier in this tournament I sturck a kid out on a corner pitch. His response: He turned around and said "OH My God!" Needless to say I brought him back to look at me and said, "Do not say that again", or words to that effect, just loud enough for him to hear. Two innings later I handed his HC a bat at the end of the inning as he came down from the 3B coach's box. I told the coach quietly (who also an umpire btw) what he did,  what I said to him and asked him to take care of it. His first words were, "Well, I trust his zone completely." 

 

My quiet response was, "Coach, I have a little more experience than him in calling strikes, please take care of it." He didn't, because his attitude was that it was his player and his player never makes mistakes . 

 

That is the kind of crap too many umpires have to put up with, and I don't just swallow my tongue and take it any more. 

 

I wouldn't do this. You've already warned the kid. Let the coach pick the bat up and move on. It is two innings later so it's hard for the coach to take care of something that happened 20 minutes ago. If you're going to do it, have him take care of it immediately.

[jrewell1978]

Assistant coaches are to be seen and not heard.