When does an umpire take action on a pitcher who hits batters

[Guest David]

In LL Softball we have a pitcher who throws very hard.  She can be a bit wild and when she hits someone it really hurts - they tend to buckle over for a minute or two before they can get up and go to first.  She is 12/13 and a big girl - she is throwing to 9-12 year old girls and some are small and fragile.  The last 3 times we faced this pitcher she hit our best player on her first at bat (buckling her over for atleast 1-2 minutes each time).  The third time she did it some parents and coaches got upset.  She will typically hit from 2 to 5 batters in a 4/5 inning stretch.  To give her the benefit of the doubt it does not appear that she is intentionally hitting batters but it does affect the game because other batters are intimidated and afraid to bat.  At what point does the umpire have a responsibility to step in and protect the players and maintain crowd control because the parents and coaches are getting upset because their kids/players are getting hurt?  This has gone on all season and last game it created a big rucus and the game was ended in the 5th by the coach whose players are getting hit because a parent got very upset and became mouthly causing the pitcher to get upset and cry.  The game ended with upset coaces, parents and players on both sides crying.  We face this team tomorrow again and we have not heard from the league officials yet.  If I end up umpiring what do I do?   

[boyinr]

David:

 

What rule are you going to cite for the actions that you intend to take?  You are there to administer the rules not make them. 

[Guest David]

This is why I posted the question.  Are there any rules that apply that might be administered that will help the situation?

[cyclonehokiece]

Absent of a rule and if the beanballs are not intentional, you can do nothing. Just nip the whining in the bud.

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[scrounge]

Admittedly, I don't know LL softball unique rules...but absent something specific or a league/house rule, there's not much unless you judge it intentional. Now, from a game mgmt point of view, you could be diligent on the strike zone and not give borderline pitches so they switch pitchers, but it's a fine line between being tight to being manipulative. And if you're tight with her, you've got to be the same for the other pitcher.

 

So after all that, to make a long story boring: not much you can do except hope the coach does the right thing.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

I agree with what others have posted.  Absent of any specific rule, there's NOTHING you can (or should) do.

 

Our local house league has a rule that says "any pitcher who hits 2 batters in the same inning, or 3 batters in the same game must be removed from his position as pitcher."

[Guest David]

I agree with what others have posted.  Absent of any specific rule, there's NOTHING you can (or should) do.

 

Our local house league has a rule that says "any pitcher who hits 2 batters in the same inning, or 3 batters in the same game must be removed from his position as pitcher."

 

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This is very helpful.  I will suggest this to the leagues board and ask them to consider a new rule.
 

[Stan W.]

and dont umpire the game............you are affiilated with the other team.............nothing good will come of you umpiring that game

[clawdad]

This issue was on the agenda at this year's Little League Congress. It obviously isn't that big of an issue, because it got voted down. There are too many variables: maybe the offensive team coaches would have their batters crowd the plate and possibly "lean into one." have that happen a few times, and even an ace pitcher with stellar control could get tossed from a game because of a couple inside pitches barely brush the player's jersey . Or because of rain or sweat on the pitcher's hands the ball slipped.

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[MooseLoop]

I had this situation a few times back when I did more little girl softball.  It is agonizing to see a pitcher throwing dangerously faster than she can control to some frail waif with arms the circumference of a sapling.  It is extremely painful to the youngster when she gets hit at that speed, and I'm surprised that not enough arms have been broken to cause a rule change.  If nothing else, it makes the batter want not to play ball anymore, a result definitely not in the interest of the sport.

 

So years ago, I decided that intentionally pitching dangerously fast and faster than the pitcher could control was wanton and reckless, the legal equivalent of intentional, and warned a coach after the third hard-contact HBP in two innings that if it happened again, I would eject the pitcher for malicious contact and unsportsmanlike behavior.  Got major gruff from the coach (who not-so-coincidentally was her father), but his darling F1 slowed down and managed to get through two more innings without another HBP.

 

Ran it by fellow umps afterwards, almost all of whom criticized me based on my making up rules, as stated in above posts.  So I never did it again (maybe two opportunities), but I still think it was the right thing to do.

[Replacematt]

I had this situation a few times back when I did more little girl softball.  It is agonizing to see a pitcher throwing dangerously faster than she can control to some frail waif with arms the circumference of a sapling.  It is extremely painful to the youngster when she gets hit at that speed, and I'm surprised that not enough arms have been broken to cause a rule change.  If nothing else, it makes the batter want not to play ball anymore, a result definitely not in the interest of the sport.

 

So years ago, I decided that intentionally pitching dangerously fast and faster than the pitcher could control was wanton and reckless, the legal equivalent of intentional, and warned a coach after the third hard-contact HBP in two innings that if it happened again, I would eject the pitcher for malicious contact and unsportsmanlike behavior.  Got major gruff from the coach (who not-so-coincidentally was her father), but his darling F1 slowed down and managed to get through two more innings without another HBP.

 

Ran it by fellow umps afterwards, almost all of whom criticized me based on my making up rules, as stated in above posts.  So I never did it again (maybe two opportunities), but I still think it was the right thing to do.

 

So, you're the one that's right and everyone else is wrong? 

[noumpere]

 but I still think it was the right thing to do.

To the extent you still think so, then you need to do the right thing the right way -- take it to the league officials and have them put in a "three-hit-batter=removal" rule.

 

You might have done the right thing, but you clearly did it the wrong way.

[MooseLoop]

I guess I meant morally right, not legally right.  I agree that an umpire should not make up rules in the guise of interpreting existing rules.  But in that game, with that pitcher and those batters, I have no regrets. I was green and soft.

 

I would not advocate a literal "3 HBPs = removal" rule.  It would have to be something like: "A pitcher with inadequate control who pitches fast enough to risk physical harm or severe pain to opposing batters may be removed as pitcher, with or without a warning."

 

BTW, FWIW, I have only seen this in little girls softball with big 12-year-olds pitching to little 9-year-olds, like the OP.

[Replacematt]

I guess I meant morally right, not legally right.  I agree that an umpire should not make up rules in the guise of interpreting existing rules.  But in that game, with that pitcher and those batters, I have no regrets. I was green and soft.

 

I would not advocate a literal "3 HBPs = removal" rule.  It would have to be something like: "A pitcher with inadequate control who pitches fast enough to risk physical harm or severe pain to opposing batters may be removed as pitcher, with or without a warning."

 

BTW, FWIW, I have only seen this in little girls softball with big 12-year-olds pitching to little 9-year-olds, like the OP.

That would be the most unenforceable rule ever.

[basejester]

 She is 12/13 and a big girl - she is throwing to 9-12 year old girls and some are small and fragile. 

It's often a challenge to round up enough girls to make a workable division, so I understand the motivation.  But 9-12 is a big age range, especially if we're talking all of the nines.  Does this league have minor softball? 

[Rich Ives]

I guess I meant morally right, not legally right.  I agree that an umpire should not make up rules in the guise of interpreting existing rules.  But in that game, with that pitcher and those batters, I have no regrets. I was green and soft.

 

I would not advocate a literal "3 HBPs = removal" rule.  It would have to be something like: "A pitcher with inadequate control who pitches fast enough to risk physical harm or severe pain to opposing batters may be removed as pitcher, with or without a warning."

 

BTW, FWIW, I have only seen this in little girls softball with big 12-year-olds pitching to little 9-year-olds, like the OP.

 

Getting hit hurts - doesn't matter how old you are.  Some hits leave stitch marks on your body. Comes with the territory.

 

You might want to change sports.

[Mike D]

This issue was on the agenda at this year's Little League Congress. It obviously isn't that big of an issue, because it got voted down. There are too many variables: maybe the offensive team coaches would have their batters crowd the plate and possibly "lean into one." have that happen a few times, and even an ace pitcher with stellar control could get tossed from a game because of a couple inside pitches barely brush the player's jersey . Or because of rain or sweat on the pitcher's hands the ball slipped.

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If the offensive player leans into one, or takes one for the team, it is a dead ball and a ball or strike depending on where the ball traveled.  Usually only have to call this once to keep them from leaning into a pitch.

[clawdad]

 

This issue was on the agenda at this year's Little League Congress. It obviously isn't that big of an issue, because it got voted down. There are too many variables: maybe the offensive team coaches would have their batters crowd the plate and possibly "lean into one." have that happen a few times, and even an ace pitcher with stellar control could get tossed from a game because of a couple inside pitches barely brush the player's jersey . Or because of rain or sweat on the pitcher's hands the ball slipped.

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If the offensive player leans into one, or takes one for the team, it is a dead ball and a ball or strike depending on where the ball traveled.  Usually only have to call this once to keep them from leaning into a pitch.

 

I know.  You or I may call that if it's appropriate, but another umpire may not judge it the same as we do.

 

The point I was making was that "multiple hit batters = removal" was on the agenda at the LL Congress, and it got voted down. Only 30% voted in favor of it.  The majority of the voting body decided (wisely, IMO) that it wasn't an issue that needed to be governed by putting a rule in the book.