Retroactive Ejection?

[umpire_scott]

15U travel ball tournament, situation is 2 outs R2, full count on the batter I'm in C.  Pitch is ball 4.  BR starts toward first and then I hear he's going.  I turn and high-tail it to get the best angle I can on the steal of third.  Ball comes in slide and I have a perfect view of the tag right on the foot as the foot is about 4 inches from third base.  I bang him out.  Third base coach who is also the HC throws his hat down and drops an F bomb.  It wasn't very loud so I ignored it.  I assumed he was pissed at the kid for running him out of an inning.  Then 1/2 to the dugout he says to me "come on blue that wasn't even close".  After getting over the shock that he would argue a call that he was correct, wasn't even close, I replied with "come on coach argue something relevant.  The tag was made on the foot in front of the bag".

 

Afterwards I thought to myself that the demonstration actually was directed at me not his kid.  I would have chucked him had I known that at the time.  Not being serious about the retroactive ejection, but I sure felt like I wanted to. 

[maven]

You ignore an F-bomb but argue with him about the call? C'mon man!

 

Ignore statements, answer questions. If he makes a statement and seems to be waiting for a reply, ask him whether he has a question and answer that. Don't argue: ever.

 

Who cares if he thought it wasn't close? Seriously: like many umpires, it's not enough that you're right, it seems you have to convince everyone on the field that you're right.

 

You're bound to fail at that, and your continued efforts in that direction will cause you more trouble and hold you back.

[grayhawk]

And we wonder why these coaches act the way they do. Because they get away with it!

Throws hat down and drops an F bomb in a 15U game? Done and done.

[umpire_scott]

You ignore an F-bomb but argue with him about the call? C'mon man!

 

Ignore statements, answer questions. If he makes a statement and seems to be waiting for a reply, ask him whether he has a question and answer that. Don't argue: ever.

 

Who cares if he thought it wasn't close? Seriously: like many umpires, it's not enough that you're right, it seems you have to convince everyone on the field that you're right.

 

You're bound to fail at that, and your continued efforts in that direction will cause you more trouble and hold you back.

 

Admitted weakness of mine that I will have to work on overcoming.  I don't know that it's about convincing anyone.  I really don't process it.  It is just a snap reaction to ignorance.  It's a trigger for me.  I have a difficult time ignoring coaches that say monumentally stupid things.  

[umpire_scott]

And we wonder why these coaches act the way they do. Because they get away with it!

Throws hat down and drops an F bomb in a 15U game? Done and done.

 

Honestly I thought he was just pissed that his team ran itself out of an inning.  The F-bomb was not loud or directing anywhere as far as I saw it.  So I figured it was best to ignore it.  I do have a hard time distinguishing what is ejection worthy and what is not.

 

Just a question. . . what if a player commits a silly error and the coach throws his hat and drops an F-bomb (not loudly but enough for you to hear it).  Would you toss him?   

 

I'm not arguing I just am trying to get a feel for what is and is not ejection worthy.

[grayhawk]

A coach throwing his hat down is a big no no. Especially right after your call.

[maven]

A coach throwing his hat down is a big no no. Especially right after your call.

 

Agree. If he doesn't want to risk being interpreted as showing me up, he can choose not to be so demonstrative.

 

Any level, right up to MLB.

[bam]

I would have replied that I wasn't aware that the histrionics and f-bomb were directed at me.  Good to know, skip.  I'll keep that in mind. 

[ricka56]

Third base coach who is also the HC throws his hat down and drops an F bomb.  It wasn't very loud so I ignored it.  I assumed he was pissed at the kid for running him out of an inning.  Then 1/2 to the dugout he says to me "come on blue that wasn't even close".  After getting over the shock that he would argue a call that he was correct, wasn't even close, I replied with "come on coach argue something relevant.  The tag was made on the foot in front of the bag".

So you gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was upset with his player and then he screwed you by hollering at you after you let him off the hook. Tossing him now isn't going to look good, but sometimes a dirty looking EJ is better than no EJ. If he stays, he's on a very short leash.

 

Usually I beat feet to where I need to go to after a call. But if 3BC was demonstrative in a way that might/might not have been directed at me, then I probably would delay my departure until I figured out who it was directed at (EJ mechanic at the ready).  

 

And as others have pointed out, arguing (especially across the diamond) is never the way to go.

[umpcoachfather]

F-bomb - tossage.  has no place in a youth game. 

[KLAH316]

F-Bomb = Parking lot in under 18yoa games......

[bam]

Whatever level you're at, if the f-bomb can't be heard by spectators, ignore it. If you're doing U12, it's a judgement call.

Really, what do I care that someone is cursing under his breath? I'm usually running away from that situation anyway.

[guyinaredhat]

Do not "beat feet " after a call especially a close one . Haves little swagger own your call , be aware of a coach disagreeing or wanting to "discuss" something and then hustle back to where you need to be. Getting away from your call too quickly looks bad , and if a coach comes out it might look like your running away from him .

[Jocko]

Do not "beat feet " after a call especially a close one . Haves little swagger own your call , be aware of a coach disagreeing or wanting to "discuss" something and then hustle back to where you need to be. Getting away from your call too quickly looks bad , and if a coach comes out it might look like your running away from him .

hustle to your appropriate position. If he wants to talk, he'll let you know. And then he gets to walk to where you are.

[PonyUmpire]

 

You ignore an F-bomb but argue with him about the call? C'mon man!

 

Ignore statements, answer questions. If he makes a statement and seems to be waiting for a reply, ask him whether he has a question and answer that. Don't argue: ever.

 

Who cares if he thought it wasn't close? Seriously: like many umpires, it's not enough that you're right, it seems you have to convince everyone on the field that you're right.

 

You're bound to fail at that, and your continued efforts in that direction will cause you more trouble and hold you back.

 

Admitted weakness of mine that I will have to work on overcoming.  I don't know that it's about convincing anyone.  I really don't process it.  It is just a snap reaction to ignorance.  It's a trigger for me.  I have a difficult time ignoring coaches that say monumentally stupid things.  

 

 

Something that helped me in my conversations with coaches is practicing a set of canned responses and trying to stick with those.  That way, I don't have to worry about trying to think on my feet, and then talking myself into a corner.

For example:

- "I had him out"

- "The tag beat him"

- "The throw beat him"

 or

- "I had him safe"

- "He beat it"

- "I had a high tag"

- "He missed the tag"

 

And if the coach persists:

- "I'm not discussing it further"

- "That's enough"

- "Go back to your position/the dugout"

- "We're done here"

 

On a judgement call, there's hardly a chance of me changing the coach's mind, so I'm not going to try very hard.  My goal is to shut him down and make him go away, while being as calm and professional as I can about it.

[Jocko]

I have not problem with a concise answer to the question about my call.

"Anthony, that's my call. I had him sliding into the tag. And I had a good look."

[JaxRolo]

Make your call. Get back in position. No reason to hang around after the call. If you stand there it looks like you are gloating. "Yeah Baby, I got that one right!"

Hustle back to deep right field and make him come to you.

[bam]

Do not "beat feet " after a call especially a close one . Haves little swagger own your call , be aware of a coach disagreeing or wanting to "discuss" something and then hustle back to where you need to be. Getting away from your call too quickly looks bad , and if a coach comes out it might look like your running away from him .

You mean you just hang around and wait to see if someone is going to question the call?  All that does is it gives me the opportunity to demonstrate I'm a confrontational red-ass.  No, thank you.  I make the call and get to where I'm supposed to be, because it ain't where I'm standing. 

[umpire_scott]

Do not "beat feet " after a call especially a close one . Haves little swagger own your call , be aware of a coach disagreeing or wanting to "discuss" something and then hustle back to where you need to be. Getting away from your call too quickly looks bad , and if a coach comes out it might look like your running away from him .

 

I can understand this thought process.  I have oftentimes "beat feet" after a close call and I've heard cat calls from the stands like "he knows he missed it".  I don't think hanging around waiting for the call is necessarily the right choice.  Just do what you normally do.  If you "beat feet" faster after a close call the coaches and fans will interpret that as you are getting out of Dodge so you don't have your call questioned.  

 

In my OP the circumstances of the tournament were that I'm supposed to keep score on the tournament lineup card.  To avoid any controversies we're are told to check with both scorekeepers every 1/2 inning to make sure they have the same thing.  So after my call I was going to verify my scores, hence not even slowly "beating feet" to short RF.