Has anyone noticed?

[maineump]

I don't know about you guys but.......

Have you noticed the Bull**** increases with the younger or more inexperienced umpires?

I have been umpiring a long time, and have not had to eject a coach in 5+ years.

It seems that when I am doing games that there is an ejection, it is because the coach is going after my partner that doesn't seem to have strong game management skills, or is in over is head.

The only ejections I have been involved with in the past few years were in college games, and my partner that ejected got rattled to the point of ejection. I would not have ejected any of those, as it did not become personal and the coaches were questioning calls (we have to give them a chance at that level - just don't make it personal) and in my opinion didn't get out of hand until the ejection occurred.

 

This does not count the MC ejections (I think I get like 1/year of those)

 

Just an observation - any thoughts?

[BigUmpire]

I don't know about you guys but.......

Have you noticed the Bull**** increases with the younger or more inexperienced umpires?

I have been umpiring a long time, and have not had to eject in 5+ years.

It seems that when I am doing games that there is an ejection, it is because the coach is going after my partner that doesn't seem to have strong game management skills, or is in over is head.

 

Just an observation

“Sorry sir, don't confuse your age with my authority" “Let’s play ball!â€

[BigUmpire]

Bumper sticker from the great one-

 

• "My last coach ejection was several years ago but I don't have to because they know I will"-mstaylor

[BigUmpire]

Remembered a conversation after an ejection between one of our HS age umpires from 3 years ago:

“Coach when this discussion is over one of us will remain on this field, if it’s me the game continues, if it’s you the game is over and you lose with a forfeit!

Pick who stays please.

 

This young man is at Duke on a full academic scholarship  AND on the Dean’s list every year.

Miss you Chris.

[maineump]

A line I have used is -

Coach, as an umpire, I have never lost a discussion about a call, and I have never been ejected during that discussion

 

hint hint

[maven]

A line I have used is -

Coach, as an umpire, I have never lost a discussion about a call, and I have never been ejected during that discussion

 

hint hint

 

Yeah, no: file that one under things I'd like to say but wouldn't. The problem, for me, is that it's a veiled threat.

 

Coaches want to have their say. Let 'em. When you've had enough — and don't wait too long for that — tell them "That's enough." Simple.

 

If they don't recognize that as a warning, they can figure it out in the parking lot. Guys (umpires) get so hot under the collar, when all you need to do is warn once, then pitch 'em. Remember: you brought a gun to a knife fight.

 

For me, threats are demeaning and and more a way to aggrandize myself and my power than is necessary. A simple warning is all we need.

[Thunderheads]

 

A line I have used is -

Coach, as an umpire, I have never lost a discussion about a call, and I have never been ejected during that discussion

 

hint hint

 

Yeah, no: file that one under things I'd like to say but wouldn't. The problem, for me, is that it's a veiled threat.

 

Coaches want to have their say. Let 'em. When you've had enough — and don't wait too long for that — tell them "That's enough." Simple.

 

If they don't recognize that as a warning, they can figure it out in the parking lot. Guys (umpires) get so hot under the collar, when all you need to do is warn once, then pitch 'em. Remember: you brought a gun to a knife fight.

 

For me, threats are demeaning and and more a way to aggrandize myself and my power than is necessary. A simple warning is all we need.

 

well, which is it, ...yeah, or no?

 

2 points for aggrandize

[maven]

well, which is it, ...yeah, or no?

 

It's both.

 

Yeah, I'd like to say it.

No, I wouldn't.

[bluejerred]

I started umpiring a little older than most (31) and I believe that with my past life experiences (military, marriage, jobs, etc.), it has helped me handle situations on the field better than younger umpires.  That being said, knowing I'm subject to err just like everyone else so I continued to look for more resources.  Someone on here, and I forget who, recommended reading a book called "Verbal Judo".  It was written by a Ph.D. who became a police officer and revolutionized his way of communication.  I have to tell you that whoever recommended that book on here changed my entire approach to handling situations on the field.  Rulebooks, clinics, and mechanics are extremely important; however, I would definitely have to recommend this book to anyone having confidence issues handling situations on the field.  Outstanding book!

[amb1995]

 

A line I have used is -

Coach, as an umpire, I have never lost a discussion about a call, and I have never been ejected during that discussion

 

hint hint

 

Yeah, no: file that one under things I'd like to say but wouldn't. The problem, for me, is that it's a veiled threat.

 

Coaches want to have their say. Let 'em. When you've had enough — and don't wait too long for that — tell them "That's enough." Simple.

 

If they don't recognize that as a warning, they can figure it out in the parking lot. Guys (umpires) get so hot under the collar, when all you need to do is warn once, then pitch 'em. Remember: you brought a gun to a knife fight.

 

For me, threats are demeaning and and more a way to aggrandize myself and my power than is necessary. A simple warning is all we need.

 

I agree with that 100%. I have been umpiring since I turned 13, I am now 19, and I have never ejected anyone from a game. Usually after a warning they do quite down and there is usually no problem after that. 

[Majordave]

I did get smart once. Last year. 15's tourney. Coach from 3B dugout calls out "that's three you've missed." After a close call at 1B.

I calmly walk over and ask who said it? There were like six daddy-coaches in the dugout. The clown leader admits saying it and two other guys pointed at him before he 'fessed up. I said "coach, you're watching the game from the second worst place to watch a baseball game. Do you know the worst place?" Coach says no, am I ejected? I said "yes and you get to try and watch the rest of the game and the next one from the worst place I know, the parking lot."

He said "I knew I was ejected when I said it. Why do you have to be such a smart ass about it?"

Another coach offered "because he can."

I also said the players are complaining because there are too many of you coaches in the dugout. No room for players to sit and they can't relax from being overcoached. That got a couple more laughs as he left. Everyone else got the message and they simmered down and won the game.

Not my usual EJ but it felt right.

[BigUmpire]

I did get smart once. Last year. 15's tourney. Coach from 3B dugout calls out "that's three you've missed." After a close call at 1B.

I calmly walk over and ask who said it? There were like six daddy-coaches in the dugout. The clown leader admits saying it and two other guys pointed at him before he 'fessed up. I said "coach, you're watching the game from the second worst place to watch a baseball game. Do you know the worst place?" Coach says no, am I ejected? I said "yes and you get to try and watch the rest of the game and the next one from the worst place I know, the parking lot."

He said "I knew I was ejected when I said it. Why do you have to be such a smart ass about it?"

Another coach offered "because he can."

I also said the players are complaining because there are too many of you coaches in the dugout. No room for players to sit and they can't relax from being overcoached. That got a couple more laughs as he left. Everyone else got the message and they simmered down and won the game.

Not my usual EJ but it felt right.

Perfect!

Outstanding.

[BigUmpire]

I did get smart once. Last year. 15's tourney. Coach from 3B dugout calls out "that's three you've missed." After a close call at 1B.

I calmly walk over and ask who said it? There were like six daddy-coaches in the dugout. The clown leader admits saying it and two other guys pointed at him before he 'fessed up. I said "coach, you're watching the game from the second worst place to watch a baseball game. Do you know the worst place?" Coach says no, am I ejected? I said "yes and you get to try and watch the rest of the game and the next one from the worst place I know, the parking lot."

He said "I knew I was ejected when I said it. Why do you have to be such a smart ass about it?"

Another coach offered "because he can."

I also said the players are complaining because there are too many of you coaches in the dugout. No room for players to sit and they can't relax from being overcoached. That got a couple more laughs as he left. Everyone else got the message and they simmered down and won the game.

Not my usual EJ but it felt right.

 

 

"Everyone else got the message and they simmered down and won the game"

 

MUST HAVE WORKED!

 

[maineump]

I have only used it once - had a bad day and got tired of listening to the coach. I didn't want to toss him, because it would have been a forfeit, and it wasn't fair to the kids that this guy was a jack***. The kids were great to deal with.

 

I have however, had partners that have asked questions like:

- Sir do you have an assistant?

- This is your warning now

at the plate meeting.

[Stan W.]

I started umpiring a little older than most (31) and I believe that with my past life experiences (military, marriage, jobs, etc.), it has helped me handle situations on the field better than younger umpires.  That being said, knowing I'm subject to err just like everyone else so I continued to look for more resources.  Someone on here, and I forget who, recommended reading a book called "Verbal Judo".  It was written by a Ph.D. who became a police officer and revolutionized his way of communication.  I have to tell you that whoever recommended that book on here changed my entire approach to handling situations on the field.  Rulebooks, clinics, and mechanics are extremely important; however, I would definitely have to recommend this book to anyone having confidence issues handling situations on the field.  Outstanding book!

 

I know a number of us have recommended this book in past posts....I teach directly from it in my NFHS umpire classes......I believe that there are chapters in this book that are more relevant to umpiring than any other avocation ......

[TStokes97]

*Semi-off Topic Alert!*. Not all young umps deal with that, Ive been doing this for 3 years, no ejections yet we don't all resort to it- the closest I came was when a bunch of grandparents were shouting at me in my first year, I didn't toss any(I was 15 didn't know I was allowed to) but a coach reported it to the UIC who reguarly umped the games I played in, next game I played in he came to me between innings asking me about the "walker riot" he and my coach(real true red neck) had a field day with that, so no we don't all start tossing people too soon its not overly common in my opinion

[CricketChapman]

I started in machine pitch when I was 15 and although I did not eject anyone until age 18 (my very first travel game - how appropriate), I can assure you many coaches try to pressure or confuse young umpires.  I also believe I had several opportunities to eject but did not do so because I wasn't exactly sure when a coach crossed the line.

My ejections peaked from ages 18-21 - I think that's because I started to realize when ejections are deserved and appropriate (I also started doing more and more competitive games).  I averaged around 5-7 ejections per season during that stretch.

I am now 25 and finishing up my 11th season.  I've ejected a total of 11 individuals the past 4 years (4 players, 4 coaches, and 3 fans who instigated a fight in the bleachers) and none so far this season.  In fact, I've only issued one warning this year (*knock on wood).

I think it works both ways - as you get older, you learn how to communicate better and handle situations better.  But, at the same time, the coaches are far less likely to pressure or disrespect you because you are older.

[umpire_scott]

I have found that a warning like "Coach that's enough" seldom works.  I can count on one hand the times I've used that and didn't have him say something afterwards.  And then I feel like if I eject after a simple "Coach that's enough" and he keeps talking then I'm looked at as a red ass.  And it's not about reputation as I've not umpired in the same area long enough for any of the coaches to even know me.

[maven]

I have found that a warning like "Coach that's enough" seldom works.  I can count on one hand the times I've used that and didn't have him say something afterwards.  And then I feel like if I eject after a simple "Coach that's enough" and he keeps talking then I'm looked at as a red ass.  And it's not about reputation as I've not umpired in the same area long enough for any of the coaches to even know me.

 

It seldom works? Then you're not doing it right!

 

Seriously: if your tone of voice and body language back up the content of your words, then they will suffice to warn a coach. If you absolutely must, you could add, "...and this is your warning."

 

And if he doesn't get it, then dump him. I don't have a lot of sympathy for umpires who allow coaches to ride them for 2 or 3 hours and then whinge about it.

 

Too many umpires put up with too much guff when they have the opportunity to enjoy the rest of the game miscreant-free.

[Majordave]

@maven  Amen brother!

 

Instead of "That's enough" and ending it.  I also add "You are arguing judgment calls/balls and strikes (whichever fits) which BY RULE is not allowed.  This is your warning!"  I say it in a loud and firm voice but do not yell.  They mumble and some of the fans start jabbering but the coaching staffs almost always do what I say.  They STFU, go back in to the dugout and grumble amongst themselves but they STFU!  Which is all I really want.

 

Every now and then someone will challenge or test you then it's time to pull the eject lever but rarely more than once a weekend.  Word travels fast amongst the coaches and players on who they can pull that BS on and who will not tolerate it.

 

I don't care if they like me or not.  I want them to STFU and play ball.

[renegadewolf]

@Majordave Right with you!

 

One of my favorite things in a ball game when I am being pestered by a coach is to straight up ask them are you arguing balls/strikes safe/out any other judgement call.  Smart coaches shut up right away.  The not so bright ones are then warned that if they continue they will be ejected.  Either way, after that it gets a lot quieter. If I have to eject, I have no issue pulling the trigger, I'm not there to be popular or liked, I have no vested interest in who wins.  I'm there to call a game not be abused

[MikeSafari]

@Majordave Right with you!

 

One of my favorite things in a ball game when I am being pestered by a coach is to straight up ask them are you arguing balls/strikes safe/out any other judgement call.  Smart coaches shut up right away.  The not so bright ones are then warned that if they continue they will be ejected.  Either way, after that it gets a lot quieter. If I have to eject, I have no issue pulling the trigger, I'm not there to be popular or liked, I have no vested interest in who wins.  I'm there to call a game not be abused

 

God I wish people could understand this more than almost anything else I do as an umpire. I truly do not care who wins, I just want to see a good, clean game of baseball.

 

This weekend while working a tournament for my local association with a bunch of teams from all over the region, one of the parents just behind the fence straight up asked me, "Hey you're from here, right? Why aren't you calling that for us?"

 

I didn't even know what to think, let alone say anything. I felt like this guy:

[DVA7130]

I've had three real coach ones so far this year, then another one where a kid threw sand at me after a call at the plate.

Say what you want

[charliej47]

 The way I look at it is they take themselves out of the game and I'm the gate.

 

I was doing a varsity baseball game and had to toss F1 after giving him a warning about arguing balls and strikes.  The HC decided that he had to go also.