Lodged Ball in Uniform

[goody14]

http://m.mlb.com/video/v32819727/?query=odor

 

I noticed they gave the runner 1B only.  I could not find the rule in OBR that covers this.  Searching for "lodge" and get a few things for pitches but not batted balls. (This is usually where someone posts the cite in 3 seconds and I look like an idiot)

 

Is this just an accepted interpretation to give one base?

 

It is 2 bases in FED, right (8-3-3 (c ))?

[noumpere]

Umpire discretion in OBR (by interp in MLBUM or something) and NCAA (but 99% of the time it's one base, and other runners advance if running or if forced):

 

 

 

NCAA: 8-3-L "l. If a fair batted or thrown ball becomes lodged in a player’s uniform, the ball

shall be declared dead and bases awarded at the umpire’s discretion;"

 

FED is two bases: 8-3-3-c "two bases if a fair batted ball ... lodges in a defensive player's ... uniform"

[grayhawk]

According to Wendelstedt:

 

An umpire may award bases that, in his judgment, will nullify the infraction when:

 

A batted or thrown ball lodges in the uniform or paraphernalia of a player, or a thrown ball lodges in the uniform or paraphernalia of an umpire

 

In a note, he says:

 

This interpretation is inconsistent with rulings on similar plays.  Though we agree that this ruling is more in line with "common sense and fair play," it would be more consistent if the award was in line with any other ball that has been lodged out of play; a two base award from the time of pitch or throw, accordingly.

 

So in OBR, it's bases awarded as determined by the umpire.  Funny that Wendelstedt thinks the Fed ruling is better.

[johnnyg08]

According to Wendelstedt:

 

 

 

An umpire may award bases that, in his judgment, will nullify the infraction when:

 

A batted or thrown ball lodges in the uniform or paraphernalia of a player, or a thrown ball lodges in the uniform or paraphernalia of an umpire

 

In a note, he says:

 

This interpretation is inconsistent with rulings on similar plays.  Though we agree that this ruling is more in line with "common sense and fair play," it would be more consistent if the award was in line with any other ball that has been lodged out of play; a two base award from the time of pitch or throw, accordingly.

 

So in OBR, it's bases awarded as determined by the umpire.  Funny that Wendelstedt thinks the Fed ruling is better.

 

Yep, OBR places the runner.  

 

FED, the same applies if the ball is lodged in the glove.  I think the OBR rule is better.  

 

FED:  Batter hits a ground ball come backer to F1 and the ball lodges in his glove.  As umpire we place the batter/runner at R2.  

 

OBR, at least gives the umpires some discretion.

[Thunderheads]

 

According to Wendelstedt:

 

 

 

An umpire may award bases that, in his judgment, will nullify the infraction when:

 

A batted or thrown ball lodges in the uniform or paraphernalia of a player, or a thrown ball lodges in the uniform or paraphernalia of an umpire

 

In a note, he says:

 

This interpretation is inconsistent with rulings on similar plays.  Though we agree that this ruling is more in line with "common sense and fair play," it would be more consistent if the award was in line with any other ball that has been lodged out of play; a two base award from the time of pitch or throw, accordingly.

 

So in OBR, it's bases awarded as determined by the umpire.  Funny that Wendelstedt thinks the Fed ruling is better.

 

Yep, OBR places the runner.  

 

FED, the same applies if the ball is lodged in the glove.  I think the OBR rule is better.  

 

FED:  Batter hits a ground ball come backer to F1 and the ball lodges in his glove.  As umpire we place the batter/runner at R2.  

 

OBR, at least gives the umpires some discretion.

 

once again, because most coaches don't know the rules differences .... that would be an absolute $h!t storm ..........

[johnnyg08]

 

 

According to Wendelstedt:

 

 

 

An umpire may award bases that, in his judgment, will nullify the infraction when:

 

A batted or thrown ball lodges in the uniform or paraphernalia of a player, or a thrown ball lodges in the uniform or paraphernalia of an umpire

 

In a note, he says:

 

This interpretation is inconsistent with rulings on similar plays.  Though we agree that this ruling is more in line with "common sense and fair play," it would be more consistent if the award was in line with any other ball that has been lodged out of play; a two base award from the time of pitch or throw, accordingly.

 

So in OBR, it's bases awarded as determined by the umpire.  Funny that Wendelstedt thinks the Fed ruling is better.

 

Yep, OBR places the runner.  

 

FED, the same applies if the ball is lodged in the glove.  I think the OBR rule is better.  

 

FED:  Batter hits a ground ball come backer to F1 and the ball lodges in his glove.  As umpire we place the batter/runner at R2.  

 

OBR, at least gives the umpires some discretion.

 

once again, because most coaches don't know the rules differences .... that would be an absolute $h!t storm ..........

 

 

Oh yeah, it would be a mess.  

[ALStripes17]

According to Wendelstedt:

An umpire may award bases that, in his judgment, will nullify the infraction when:

A batted or thrown ball lodges in the uniform or paraphernalia of a player, or a thrown ball lodges in the uniform or paraphernalia of an umpire

In a note, he says:

This interpretation is inconsistent with rulings on similar plays. Though we agree that this ruling is more in line with "common sense and fair play," it would be more consistent if the award was in line with any other ball that has been lodged out of play; a two base award from the time of pitch or throw, accordingly.

So in OBR, it's bases awarded as determined by the umpire. Funny that Wendelstedt thinks the Fed ruling is better.

Yep, OBR places the runner.

FED, the same applies if the ball is lodged in the glove. I think the OBR rule is better.

FED: Batter hits a ground ball come backer to F1 and the ball lodges in his glove. As umpire we place the batter/runner at R2.

OBR, at least gives the umpires some discretion.

once again, because most coaches don't know the rules differences .... that would be an absolute $h!t storm ..........

Had it happen to me this year. I was praying so hard that the kid would not take his glove off and try to throw to 1B.

My mind: "please punch the ball out, punch it out, punch the SON OF A ....crap, he took it off to throw it... TIME, you (BR), second base."

[grayhawk]

According to Wendelstedt:

An umpire may award bases that, in his judgment, will nullify the infraction when:

A batted or thrown ball lodges in the uniform or paraphernalia of a player, or a thrown ball lodges in the uniform or paraphernalia of an umpire

In a note, he says:

This interpretation is inconsistent with rulings on similar plays. Though we agree that this ruling is more in line with "common sense and fair play," it would be more consistent if the award was in line with any other ball that has been lodged out of play; a two base award from the time of pitch or throw, accordingly.

So in OBR, it's bases awarded as determined by the umpire. Funny that Wendelstedt thinks the Fed ruling is better.

Yep, OBR places the runner.

FED, the same applies if the ball is lodged in the glove. I think the OBR rule is better.

FED: Batter hits a ground ball come backer to F1 and the ball lodges in his glove. As umpire we place the batter/runner at R2.

OBR, at least gives the umpires some discretion.

once again, because most coaches don't know the rules differences .... that would be an absolute $h!t storm ..........

Had it happen to me this year. I was praying so hard that the kid would not take his glove off and try to throw to 1B.

My mind: "please punch the ball out, punch it out, punch the SON OF A ....crap, he took it off to throw it... TIME, you (BR), second base."

And then?

[Mad Mike]

BRD Section 25 addresses this for OBR: PBUC: If a batted ball inadvertently goes into a player's or coach's uniform, the ball is dead. "The umpire will, using common sense and fair play, place all runners in such a manner that will nullify the action of the ball going out of play. ANY OUTS RECORDED PRIOR TO THE BALL GOING INTO THE PLAYER'S OR COACH'S uniform (or lodging in the catcher's face mask or paraphernalia) will stand.

 

They go on to note 9/21/12 at Yankee Stadium, Ichiro Suzuki slapped a hard bouncer to the Oakland Pitcher, Jarrod Parker. Suzuki sped to first. HP Umpire Dan Bellino threw up both hands and called "Time". Paker struggled to retrieve the ball from his jersey. Simple ruling: Ichiro stops at first.

 

The Note asks a question: But what if there was a runner on third base and he had been getting a large secondary lead? (BRD did not answer this point.)

[ALStripes17]

According to Wendelstedt:

An umpire may award bases that, in his judgment, will nullify the infraction when:

A batted or thrown ball lodges in the uniform or paraphernalia of a player, or a thrown ball lodges in the uniform or paraphernalia of an umpire

In a note, he says:

This interpretation is inconsistent with rulings on similar plays. Though we agree that this ruling is more in line with "common sense and fair play," it would be more consistent if the award was in line with any other ball that has been lodged out of play; a two base award from the time of pitch or throw, accordingly.

So in OBR, it's bases awarded as determined by the umpire. Funny that Wendelstedt thinks the Fed ruling is better.

Yep, OBR places the runner.

FED, the same applies if the ball is lodged in the glove. I think the OBR rule is better.

FED: Batter hits a ground ball come backer to F1 and the ball lodges in his glove. As umpire we place the batter/runner at R2.

OBR, at least gives the umpires some discretion.

once again, because most coaches don't know the rules differences .... that would be an absolute $h!t storm ..........

Had it happen to me this year. I was praying so hard that the kid would not take his glove off and try to throw to 1B.

My mind: "please punch the ball out, punch it out, punch the SON OF A ....crap, he took it off to throw it... TIME, you (BR), second base."

And then?

Actually had a good rapport with the DTHC from some obscure calls earlier in the year. He came out to clarify. I told him the dead ball rule, the specific award, and that it was dumb. He responded with "I agree, thanks."

[Majordave]

Different scenario/semi-hijack of thread.

Pitched ball lodges in crook of plate umpire's bicep-elbow and R1 stealing 2B. Probable passed ball as catcher fails to glove and takes off looking for ball to backstop and doesn't find it. This happened to me in FED Varsity game last Saturday. Got a pretty nice baseball stitch tattoo on my lower bicep from it. Called it a ball.

Ruling? All codes.

-OBR

-NCAA

-FED

[grayhawk]

Were you able to let it drop quickly, or did it stay there?

[Majordave]

@grayhawk

 

The ball just stuck in my right elbow/bicep crook and I pulled it out with my left hand.  (I keep indicator in front inside pocket of my Honig's ball bag and just reach in and spin wheels-I notched them with a serrated edge knife so I rarely need to look at the indicator).  Yes!  I felt it.  Could barely feel my right hand and fingers for a few minutes.

[grayhawk]

No we have an umpire handling a live ball. Kill it and make the award for a lodged pitch. R1 ends up at second base anyway.

[Majordave]

Yep killed it. Called ball on the pitch. Awarded 2B to R1 (he was already there). Had some 'splainin' to do as no one had seen it before. Shared my cool new stitch marks with catcher and batter then play on.

[noumpere]

No we have an umpire handling a live ball. Kill it and make the award for a lodged pitch. R1 ends up at second base anyway.

In OBR and NCAA, just drop it as soon as you realize it.  Keep it live.  The DB is only if it gets inside / lodged in your equipment and uniform.

 

In FED, it's dead when an umpire handles a live ball.  So if you just opened your arm and let the ball drop, the same as above in OBR and NCAA.  But, once you reached across and grabbed it, it's dead.  By rule runners return to the last base touched.  In this instance, I'd "deem" that to be second.

[grayhawk]

 

No we have an umpire handling a live ball. Kill it and make the award for a lodged pitch.

R1

ends up at second base anyway.

In OBR and NCAA, just drop it as soon as you realize it.  Keep it live.  The DB is only if it gets inside / lodged in your equipment and uniform.

 

In FED, it's dead when an umpire handles a live ball.  So if you just opened your arm and let the ball drop, the same as above in OBR and NCAA.  But, once you reached across and grabbed it, it's dead.  By rule runners return to the last base touched.  In this instance, I'd "deem" that to be second.

 

 

I like the way you recommend handling this.  My thought was that if he had to grab the ball with the other hand that it could be consider lodged, but it would be quite a stretch to call the crook of his elbow "paraphernalia."

 

@Majordave, is there a reason you decided to grab it instead of straightening your arm and letting it fall?

[Majordave]

@grayhawk

 

Because I was in pain!

 

I don't really think all that logically (Let's see, if I just let this ball embedded in my bicep/elbow just drop to the ground so the catcher can look for it on his own then the runner can keep on running and we can have some more excitement.......) when in excruciating pain from 80 mph fastballs that go from pitcher's hand straight into my muscle and elbow joint.

 

Maybe you and some other supermen or masochists like that sort of thing. I am no pussy but I will never get used to it or enjoy it.  

 

Marines say pain is weakness leaving the body.......I don't think they mean this kind of pain.  Maybe the self induced kind..............