Dropped Strike 3

[JaxRolo]

 

Remember...pro schools teach the hammer for the strike call. Which is also your out mechanic. Thus, the one hand put to the side mechanic. This is what got Eddings in trouble. He throws the hammer and his hammer on strike 3 looked like he was calling the batter out. Confusion set in.

Personally, I call my strike out to the side (as my pic would indicate) so I signal safe for a no catch and verbalize "No catch" so everyone knows what I have.

The bottom line is make sure your signals are not confusing and you'll be fine.

 

I prefer this mechanic as well.  Interesting that in our association's 2-man clinic this past weekend, the lead instructor told the entire group that no verbal is what they want us to do.  I'm okay with it, but don't agree if anyone says it's coaching (which I have heard many times).  On a close one (may have hit the dirt, may not have), saying "no catch" gives information equally to both the batter and the catcher at the same time.  It's not coaching, it's making your ruling known.

 

No Verbal???

 

Had a triple A guy tell me this weekend that a verbal must be given. You don't have to announce it to the whole world. Just loud enough for Batter and Catcher to hear.

[umpschool]

We were directed to this post because our school mechanics for an uncaught third strike was discussed. Though our input here is requested less now, we would still like to provide you the how and why of this mechanic from our perspective. Hopefully you will find use of it if you choose to apply it to your games. The following is the mechanics preferred through our professional course:

 

With two outs, or with first base unoccupied, the batter becomes a runner and may advance to first base if his third strike is uncaught. If he is not allowed to advance, the normal third strike mechanic is all that is necessary. However, if one of the conditions occurs that allow him to advance on the uncaught third strike, the umpire should indicate the third strike by pointing with his right hand and arm out to the side using no voice. This signal prevents confusion that a standard strike mechanic may cause if players believe you are instead calling the batter out. Then, depending on what occurs next, the following shall apply:

• If the pitch gets away from the catcher a considerable distance where it is obvious to everyone that the ball was not caught, there is no need for any further mechanic or voice.
• If the pitch is short-hopped by the catcher, and the batter-runner attempts to advance to first base without a tag attempt, use the voice and signal for your no catch mechanic.
• If the batter begins to advance and a tag attempt is misses, use the voice and signal for your no tag mechanic.
• If the batter is immediately tagged, use the voice and signal for your out mechanic.

Using good timing is essential when utilizing these mechanics in order to avoid confusion. Do not signal “No catch!†or “No tag!†immediately, just to have the catcher apply a tag successfully. Instead of three or four rushed mechanics, allow the play to develop and only make the mechanics necessary.

[BigSimonia]

 

 

Remember...pro schools teach the hammer for the strike call. Which is also your out mechanic. Thus, the one hand put to the side mechanic. This is what got Eddings in trouble. He throws the hammer and his hammer on strike 3 looked like he was calling the batter out. Confusion set in.

Personally, I call my strike out to the side (as my pic would indicate) so I signal safe for a no catch and verbalize "No catch" so everyone knows what I have.

The bottom line is make sure your signals are not confusing and you'll be fine.

 

I prefer this mechanic as well.  Interesting that in our association's 2-man clinic this past weekend, the lead instructor told the entire group that no verbal is what they want us to do.  I'm okay with it, but don't agree if anyone says it's coaching (which I have heard many times).  On a close one (may have hit the dirt, may not have), saying "no catch" gives information equally to both the batter and the catcher at the same time.  It's not coaching, it's making your ruling known.

 

No Verbal???

 

Had a triple A guy tell me this weekend that a verbal must be given. You don't have to announce it to the whole world. Just loud enough for Batter and Catcher to hear.

 

Attended our Association clinic 2 weeks ago - We had an active AAA Crew Chief on site (he had worked his way up through our organization - neat) and he was very clear about making sure you verbalize the D3K

[James Walker]

No catch- let's both the batter and catcher know what happened.

In the dirt- could be seen as coaching. Especially at younger levels.

[th3]

What should i have done with this - 1 ball 2 strikes, bases empty. Pitch is a curve that breaks into the dirt and the batter (in my opinion) checks his swing. People start yelling 3 things: "tag him", "run", "did he go/check that". I do nothing. The kids starts to run. They throw over to 1st and get the kid by a mile. I then ask my partner "did he go?"...he says no. And we get back at bat. 

 

Should I have done anything sooner or differently? Thanks

[noumpere]

What should i have done with this - 1 ball 2 strikes, bases empty. Pitch is a curve that breaks into the dirt and the batter (in my opinion) checks his swing. People start yelling 3 things: "tag him", "run", "did he go/check that". I do nothing. The kids starts to run. They throw over to 1st and get the kid by a mile. I then ask my partner "did he go?"...he says no. And we get back at bat. 

 

Should I have done anything sooner or differently? Thanks

Yes -- you should have asked your partner immediately so all involved would know the situation.

As an advance mechanic, you partner could have just stepped up and given his opinion -- IF he had a swing on the play (since he didn't, he wouldn't have in your specific situation)

[th3]

but i don't know that i had anyone other than the general crowd asking me to check it yet

[ALStripes17]

If you don't make the judgement yourself, a proper mechanic for the OP is to immediately check with your partner. If you said, "No, he did not" or "Yes, he did," then live and die by it

[noumpere]

but i don't know that i had anyone other than the general crowd asking me to check it yet

Let me be more clear:

 

YOU SHOULD HAVE ASKED WITHOUT BEING ASKED.

[th3]

 

but i don't know that i had anyone other than the general crowd asking me to check it yet

Let me be more clear:

 

YOU SHOULD HAVE ASKED WITHOUT BEING ASKED.

 

why shout?

 

So if i judge that he did not swing, should i go to my partner right away anyway, just in case someone asks me? Or should I come up big with "no he didnt"  and deny the request if I am sure (where as I would normally grant it)?  sorry if you feel the question is dumb - just  trying to get better. 

[UmpJM]

th3,

 

Yes, in that situation you should immediately go to your partner, even if they don't ask.

 

I believe the caps were due to the fact that you didn't get it the first time he said it.

 

JM

[alex7]

ask immediately if there's any doubt, so you don't end up putting the BR in such a disadvantage if your partner later says he did. 

And as stated by someone else, a great advanced mechanic is for the base umpire to come up and signal if the runner DID go, again reducing the disadvantage.  Something you would pre-game for sure.

 

Heck of a tough situation that you had, but should likely sound like this:

 

to partner:  "Did he go?" 

yes answer = immediate "no catch! no catch!" with perhaps a point and safe sign to emphasize it since the timing is a little off.

[noumpere]

 

 

but i don't know that i had anyone other than the general crowd asking me to check it yet

Let me be more clear:

 

YOU SHOULD HAVE ASKED WITHOUT BEING ASKED.

 

why shout?

 

So if i judge that he did not swing, should i go to my partner right away anyway, just in case someone asks me? Or should I come up big with "no he didnt"  and deny the request if I am sure (where as I would normally grant it)?  sorry if you feel the question is dumb - just  trying to get better. 

 

I'll try one more time:

 

IF THERE'S A (potential) D3K AND A CHECK SWING AND YOU JUDGE THE BATTER DID NOT GO, YOU SHOULD ASK YOUR PARTNER BEFORE THE DEFENSE ASKS YOU!

[Dash Riprock]

 

So if i judge that he did not swing, should i go to my partner right away anyway, just in case someone asks me? Or should I come up big with "no he didnt"  and deny the request if I am sure (where as I would normally grant it)?  sorry if you feel the question is dumb - just  trying to get better. 

 

First of all, you do not have an option to 'deny the [half swing appeal] request' anywhere but FED (and generally, it's not a good option to exercise in FED).  You MUST go to your partner if requested to do so (and you can safely assume you WILL be asked), and you MUST abide by your partner's ruling.

 

Therefore, yes you should immediately appeal to your partner, because there is a possibility that your call of a ball will be changed to a strike, resulting in a dramatic change in the appropriate strategy for both the O and D if there are other runner(s).  They both need to know if the pitch was a ball or a strike and they both need to know if the pitch was caught if it was a strike.  The longer this information is in doubt, the bigger the potential mess

[th3]

i know that i have the option only in fed (and this as fed) and would normally never deny it. in this case  - because i didnt ask immediately - the runner started and i think i felt that it would have stopped the play if i asked at that point. I now see, with no need for yelling, that i should have appealed immediately. i appreciate the help

[UmpJM]

th3,

 

One more thing.

 

Should you find yourself the BU in a similar situation, AND your partner does NOT come to you immediately, AND you did not pregame the thing about you ruling without him asking (see post #62), And the defense asks after retrieving the ball and tagging the runner, AND then he comes to you, the proper response is...

 

"He did NOT go!" while smartly giving a crisp "safe" mechanic.

 

JM

[th3]

yep...i hope i would know to do that but good to note..and will add to my pre-game for sure

[Dash Riprock]

i know that i have the option only in fed (and this as fed) and would normally never deny it. in this case  - because i didnt ask immediately - the runner started and i think i felt that it would have stopped the play if i asked at that point. I now see, with no need for yelling, that i should have appealed immediately. i appreciate the help

In that case, I think you did the right thing by denying the request.