Is this legal in today's game?

[Concernedcitizen2]

 

Doesn't seem to be any call or really much of a reaction from either team.  Have the rules been modified to only allow this at the plate? Or are they still allowed to just barrel over the ss/2b? If that's the case, why don't we see it more often...

[Thunderheads]

No, that is now interference

[Texas Manny]

Nettles went for the bag. There is no force slide rule. But I will say that that was a dirty play because he lowered his shoulder into the Royals fielder. I'm curious if there was a word exchange, scuffle, or a purpose pitch when Nettles came back up to bat?

[Texas Manny]

No, that is now interference

Hey Jeff,

 

I'm just asking. How do you get interference there? The contact occurred after the ball was released, didn't affect the throw, and the runner did not deviate from his base path? I'm talking OBR only.

 

Thanks!

 

Edit: I have found and am reviewing 6.05(M), and 7.09(E)(F)(G) referenced in the MLB Umpire Casebook 2013, and the PBUC Umpires Manual. I'll check what the WUS R&I Manual says as well.

[Jocko]

Dig those jackets. Groovy man.

[basejester]

The fielder didn't seem to make any effort to protect himself. That implies to me this wasn't a typical crash.

[kylejt]

 

Doesn't seem to be any call or really much of a reaction from either team.  Have the rules been modified to only allow this at the plate? Or are they still allowed to just barrel over the ss/2b? If that's the case, why don't we see it more often...

Because normally it's a force play at second, and a tag play at home.

 

In OBR the runner can run to the bag, and there is no obligation to slide. You do usually see a slide, because no one likes to take one in the noggin. Except in the playoffs, where every edge is looked for. And that, my friends, is exactly what that video shows us. A runner willing to take a throw to the face, to effect the path of the ball to second. Perfect legal at the level.

[Texas Manny]

From the Wendelstedt Umpire School Rules & Interpretations Manual, 9.3.8 - Crashing the Pivot Man on a Double Play, pg 180, footnoted:

 

If a preceding runner intentionally interferes with a fielder fielding a thrown ball, or in his attempt to throw a ball, to complete any play [6.05(m)], 428, 429, 430.

 

(Insert OBR 2013) 6.05(m):

 

6.05 A batter is out when -- (m)A preceding runner shall, in the umpires judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play:
 

Rule 6.05(m) Comment: The objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpires judgment play.

 

(End of insertion)

 

428: Intent is determined by the runner's actions. If he makes any intentional motion to interfere with the fielder or throw, if he barrel rolls or pops up into a fielder on his slide into a base, or if he slides to the inside or outside of the base without being able to reach the base with one of his arms; these should be considered intentional acts. In addition to one of these actions, he must interfere with the fielder. If he commits an intentional act, but does not interfere with the fielder, there is no violation.

 

429: Failing to slide is not, in itself, an intentional act to interfere. Runners are not required to slide.

 

430: If you enforce the penalty in 6.05(m) (outlined in SS 9.3.8), you will also enforce 7.08(B) and 7.09(J) (outlined in SS 9.3.7 Intentional Interference with a Thrown Ball). If the runner was already out when he committed the interference, 7.09(e) will apply.

(Also see: SS 9.4.2 for further explanation and enforcement when a runner who has just been put out commits interference).

 

 

Enforcement SS 9.3.8: When the preceding runner interferes with the fielder in his attempt to throw, the umpire will call and signal interference and then call time. The runner on who the play is being made is out for the interference of this teammate.

(Reference Case Play(s): P399)

 

Crashing the Pivot Man, Case Play P399:

 

R1, no outs, 2-1 count. The batter hits a ground ball to the second baseman. He tosses the ball to second base to put out R1. On the relay throw to first,

(A) R1 barrel rolls into him, knocking the shortstop down and preventing the throw

(B) R1 slides to the outfield side of and well out of reach of second base, and collides with the shortstop. The shortstop ends up on the ground, and is unable to complete the throw.

('C) Pop up slides into the shortstop and blocks the throw.

(D) R1 runs straight into second base without sliding and is hit with the throw.

(E) R1 slides directly into the base, but still knocks down the shortstop preventing the throw.

 

Ruling:

 

(A), (B), and ('C): The umpire should signal interference and call time. The BR is out.

(D) and (E): The umpire should signal that it's nothing. The play stands.

 

 

 

End of Wendelstedt

[ricka56]

Obviously hitting the middle-infilder prior to throw is probably interference. The sticky part of this is when the runner has past the point of no return in whaling the middle-infielder but contact has not yet been made as the fielder is releasing the ball. The middle-infielder has to choose between concentrating on making a quality throw and bracing for impact. Is this emminent collision an act of interference?

[noumpere]

Obviously hitting the middle-infilder prior to throw is probably interference.

I don't think it's obvious at all (if were talking about the play in the video - or items D and E in Manny's list above).

 

And the contact does not need to be made before the throw is released to be interference -- any alteration is enough.

 

(Thats all at the pro level; in the levels we do a different standard probably applies.)

[kylejt]

Prior to the throw, the runner is heading right to the bag.

 

After the throw, the runner makes contact with defensive player.

 

Dat's nuttin', fellas.

[Rich Ives]

Too many people watching MLB with HS eyes.

[ricka56]

 

Obviously hitting the middle-infilder prior to throw is probably interference.

I don't think it's obvious at all (if were talking about the play in the video - or items D and E in Manny's list above).

 

And the contact does not need to be made before the throw is released to be interference -- any alteration is enough.

 

1) If Nettles was 1 step  closer to White, contact would be immenient immediately after throw release.

2) If Nettles has 2 steps closer to White, contact would have been made as the throw is being made.

 

 

Point I was making was that the 2 step closer case might/probably be interference. The 1 step closer case is the sticky one where the umpire may hear from one coach or the other depending on whether or not the umpire called interference.

[noumpere]

 

 

Obviously hitting the middle-infilder prior to throw is probably interference.

I don't think it's obvious at all (if were talking about the play in the video - or items D and E in Manny's list above).

 

And the contact does not need to be made before the throw is released to be interference -- any alteration is enough.

 

1) If Nettles was 1 step  closer to White, contact would be immenient immediately after throw release.

2) If Nettles has 2 steps closer to White, contact would have been made as the throw is being made.

 

 

Point I was making was that the 2 step closer case might/probably be interference. The 1 step closer case is the sticky one where the umpire may hear from one coach or the other depending on whether or not the umpire called interference.

 

Point I;m making is that if hes running toward the bag then being two steps closer is NOT going to be interference in MLB.  At least as how I read the rules and further reading of the interps that Manny posted.

[Mr Umpire]

No INT even in today's standards.  He is running to the base not the fielder.  The fielder happens to be there.  He has to intentionally INT with the throw or INT with the fielder outside of advancing.  Running directly to the base is neither so it would (should) be allowed.  He did not put his hands up to block the throw.  He simply ran to the base.  What happened at the base is not his fault even if it did alter the throw. 

 

7.09(e)Comment says it.  He is continuing to advance on the bases.  It does not describe how he has to advance nor that he has to alter his path just b/c he is out.  He just can't do anything outside of advancing.  That is why it is acceptable to take the pivot man out on a slide if within reach of the base.  This is no different except he didn't slide.

[NovaScotiaBlue]

No interference however, a minor penalty for charging.

Actually give him 2 and 10 for checking to the head

[NovaScotiaBlue]

Listening to the announcers this sounds like payback for Hal McRae doing the same thing earlier in the game. So White knew it was coming and he sucked it up and took it, He also could have used another old school technique and shown Nettles why he needs to slide by planting it right bertween his eyes

[DVA7130]

I dig the mechanics at first.

[Stan W.]

I dig the mechanics at first.

yes, me too, I thought he was going to start to fly with that safe call.....