Off His Baseline or Not?

[Mudder]

I'm PU, R3 gets in a rundown, fairly early in the rundown on R3's change of direction from going to 3B to going home, he goes pretty far off his baseline (he actually may have lost his footing, and just kind wavered a bit towards the 3rd base dugout side of the line, probably enough to be called out for being out of his baseline, but I did not call him out.  BU bangs him out on his way back to 3B sliding into the base.

 

I was asked why I did not call him out earlier for going out of his baseline.  I argued that at that moment that he went off his baseline he was not directly trying to avoid a tag, and that if strayed more than 3 feet while trying to avoid the tag I would have called him out.  But when he changed direction and strayed off his baseline, the 3rd baseman was still quite a ways away from R3 (maybe 6-8ft or more, can't recall) so I ruled he was not avoiding a tag when he went off his baseline.

 

Thoughts?

[Stan W.]

based on what your saying, sounds like a good no call......

[Oldcrow]

Agree....He is only out when he runs out of the baseline to avoid the tag

[maven]

I was asked why I did not call him out earlier for going out of his baseline.  I argued that at that moment that he went off his baseline he was not directly trying to avoid a tag, and that if strayed more than 3 feet while trying to avoid the tag I would have called him out. 

 

Good call.

[umpire_scott]

Exactly what I would have called and have called many times.  That should be included in the "most misunderstood rules" thread.

[Rich Ives]

And "his baseline" changes every time the runner changes direction.

[DVA7130]

And "his baseline" changes every time the runner changes direction.

Basepath.

[Rich Ives]

 

And "his baseline" changes every time the runner changes direction.

Basepath.

 

 

 

Just maintaining consistency for the thread - that's why I put it in quotes.

[Thunderheads]

 

And "his baseline" changes every time the runner changes direction.

Basepath.

 

as long as "HIS" is used, I'm not sure it matters much on the symantics

[Mudder]

Coach asks "isn't the entire "process" of a rundown a runner trying to avoid a tag and a fielder trying to tag him?" 

 

May sound like a stupid question but the reason for my post was more to find out how do you measure "avoiding the tag" ?  Whether its in a rundown situation or anywhere else, I mean does a fielder have to be directly on a runners heals with his outstretched glove a few inches or a foot away?  Some will argue if a fielder is 10' away from a runner pursuing a tag, and the runner deviates more than 3' is the runner still not avoiding a tag, although he's not even close to being tagged?

[maven]

Coach asks "isn't the entire "process" of a rundown a runner trying to avoid a tag and a fielder trying to tag him?" 

 

Not for the purpose of this rule.

 

I don't argue rules with coaches. In some leagues, he has the right to protest. If he wants a rule clinic, that will cost extra.

[plateumpire]

The fielder also has to attempt the tag with the hand or glove with the ball in it. I had a fielder attempt to tag the runner with his empty glove. The ball was in his other hand. The runner was not out because the fielder did not make an attempt with the ball.

[umpire_scott]

So let's say as the runner is going back to his original base he sees the fielder and knows that he will be catching the ball but it's not there yet.  In seeing this he breaks towards the infield to go around the fielder that is about to catch the ball.  So he was not technically avoiding tag, because the fielder did not have the ball yet.  Is there no amount of leaving the mythical baseline that a player can do before you would bang him out?

[LMSANS]

So let's say as the runner is going back to his original base he sees the fielder and knows that he will be catching the ball but it's not there yet.  In seeing this he breaks towards the infield to go around the fielder that is about to catch the ball.  So he was not technically avoiding tag, because the fielder did not have the ball yet.  Is there no amount of leaving the mythical baseline that a player can do before you would bang him out?

 

To quote #Oldcrow "He is only out when he runs out of the baseline to avoid the tag."

 

My emphasis.

[maven]

 Is there no amount of leaving the mythical baseline that a player can do before you would bang him out?

 

The baseline/basepath is not mythical. The idea an automatic out for a runner deviating from some path in the coaches mind is a myth.

 

We don't care where runners go until the defense plays on them. The runner's next step determines his path to the base and gives us a reference to enforce OBR 7.08(a)/FED 8-4-2a.

[scrounge]

So let's say as the runner is going back to his original base he sees the fielder and knows that he will be catching the ball but it's not there yet.  In seeing this he breaks towards the infield to go around the fielder that is about to catch the ball.  So he was not technically avoiding tag, because the fielder did not have the ball yet.  Is there no amount of leaving the mythical baseline that a player can do before you would bang him out?

 

He can run to the outfield fence for all I care, as long as he isn't doing so to avoid a tag in progress.