Accosted in the parking lot

[umpire_scott]

Just finished a 13U baseball game tonight in southern Illinois.  Game ended on a DP where the offensive team thought the first baseman bobbled the ball.  Here is the entire situation.  Runners on first and second and one out.  At the beginning of the inning I had asked the visiting team what the score was and was told 9-6.  I thought it was 9-7, but did not have time to veryify it with the other team before the batter was ready. The home team is batting in the bottom of the 5th inning and the 1:50 time limit has expired.  The visiting team makes a pitching change. Two runs have come in already in the inning.  I ask the home team for their score to make sure that both had it 9-8.  The coach indicated he had 9-8 as well.  After the pitching change the first batter grounds into a 6-4-3 DP to end the game.  The 3rd base coach immediately comes out wanting to appeal the play at first stating that the first baseman had bobbled the ball.  Since the runner from second had broken for third I was up the line a little watching to make sure he touched third base, so I was not focused on the first baseman.  But I was sort of looking at both and did not see a bobble.  I saw the first baseman catch the ball kind of awkwardly in the palm of his glove rather than the web, but he still appeared from my vantage point to hold onto the ball.  My partner looked at me and asked if I saw a bobble.  I stated no and gave the "out" signal.  The fans and coaches instantly started calling us horrible umpires and said we just wanted to get the game over with.  In this league the home team supplied the game balls.  So I started to walk over to them and give them their balls back.  But they were walking away to shake the other teams hands and continued talking about us.  So I said "want your balls?" and dropped them on the ground near their dugout.  About 10 minutes later after taking my plate gear off and chatting with my partner a white truck pulls up and blocks me from driving out of my parking space.  I was in the car and the engine was running.  The offensive coach that tried to appeal the last out gets out of his truck and walks over to my window and asks me to roll it down.  I roll it down a little and he accuses me of swearing at his assistant coach.  I told him that's ridiculous, that I didn't say anything to any of the coaches.  He then states that I said "Here's your F*#King balls" when I dropped their balls on the ground.  I told him I said "Want your balls?".  I emphatically told him that I've never sworn at a coach and never would.  I told him he needed to get in his truck and leave.  He said he would but remained at my car door.  At this point I felt threatened and was not comfortable with the position I was in so I opened the door to get out of my car.  As he saw me opening the door he challenged me to fight saying "Come on, get out, let's go".  I stood up and repeated that he needed to get in his truck and leave so I could leave as well.  He finally walked back to his truck and said "Why would the coach lie?".  I said "I don't know, you know him better than I do.  But I assure you that he did lie".

 

I reported this incident to the league organizer.  He said all the right things and that he had my back on the situation.  In my opinion this coach should be tossed from the league permanently.  My intention is to see what actions are taken and if he is able to continue coaching, I am going to refuse to umpire any more games for them.

 

Thoughts?

[carolinablue]

Well, you reported it so that's good. If you don't want to work there anymore, I can understand that. If it's otherwise a good place to work, I would probably see if they handle it correctly ( get rid of the jerk coach ) before I made a harsh decision.

 

The only other thing I would say is that, this is why I never ask what the score is. I don't care and don't want to know. If there's a scoreboard then fine but if not I'm just going to do my job and the game will end when it's over. If you ask, someone can always accuse you of trying to end the game. JMHO.

 

I hate you had to go through this. Good luck.

[BuckeyeMike]

It amazes me (and usually the scorekeeper that i'm asking), what the score is. 

her: 7-1

me: who?

her: home

me: oh, ok.

LOL

 

I am absolutely oblivious to the score or who's winning until i ask somebody.  this can be viewed as both good and bad i guess.

[Mike Prince]

Next time just drop the game balls in the vicinity of home plate. The HT will pick them up and you can focus on getting off the field with your partner rather than going towards either dugout.

[BigUmpire]

Copy of my post in " Have people lost their minds?"

 

Too many of us are getting confronted or worse.

Be prepared.

Don't rely on witnesses, league officials or anyone else but yourself and your partner.

Your family is counting on you to come home that night.

Restitution will not be forthcoming if you can't work.

 

These people are driven by revenge, passion, frustration, disappointment, alcohol or drugs.

Their motivation and actions will drive them to do things that they will regret the next day BUT they will act out that moment.

Logic and reason are not part of their thought process at that time.

 

I have personal experience in this area.

When I was umpiring 13 years ago I was 6’9’. 350 lbs.

We had a guy chase my partner, Doug, to our car after a game with a bat. He was maybe 5’7’ 160lbs.

I got in his way and yelled at him to stop; he hit my forearm with the bat and broke one of the bones in my forearm.

After subduing him he was still ready to fight when the police arrived and he regained consciousness.

My recent experience with radicals in the sandbox was similar, Logic, reason and fear is not how they think

 

Be the last man standing.

 

You family needs for you to come home

 

[BigUmpire]

 

 

_{After ending the game you should roll the balls toward the home team dugout AS you rapidly leave the field.}

_{No talking, no shaking hands, NOTHING.}

_{Be the first people off of the field on ANY game, good OR bad.}

_{When someone states" Where are the umpires?" you should be long gone!}

 

_{You were in your car and got out of your car?}

_{Your actions indicated you were asking for trouble.}

_{Next time if you are blocked in dial 911 and let the coach know you are doing so.}

_{Don't roll your window down, just yell through it.}

_{Don’t linger in the parking lot if it is your last game.}

_{If you had a messy game drive away in your plate gear NOW.}

 

_{You may be lucky to be posting this.}

 

 

 

 

[catsbackr]

Listen to BigUmpire!  Get off the field, into your vehicle and leave in your gear. 

[cyclonehokiece]

I have always been told (thankfully never had to use it) to do what catsbackr has said if things look like they may get bad. Go to the gas station the next town over and change there, if not going all the way home in gear.

[mstaylor]

Three things: First don't ask if they want the baseballs, roll them toward their dugout and get gone. Second, don't get out, that can lead to a fight. Also, when he asked why his coach would lie, tell him you didn't say he did. You are saying what you said and he may have heard incorrectly. Third, where was your partner? He should not leave until you do.  

When the game is over there needs to be no conversation initiated by you, that way nothing can be misconstrued. Roll the balls to the dugout or drop them on the plate. I prefer rolling to the dugout, that way they don't have to come find them. 

[JHSump]

Personally, I prefer just dropping the baseballs right near HP, about 5 feet toward the pitching mound.  That way I can avoid rolling the balls around or past players coming out to shake hands,etc., and nobody can accuse me of anything like trying to hit somebody with a ball.  The HT can find the balls at HP, that won't be a problem for them.

 

Last out...I move just in front of the plate, drop the balls, and me and my partner head for the nearest exit.  I love the parks where there is a gate in CF and I have parked out there somewhere.  We just head out through CF, no shaking hands, no head nods, no eye contact, no "nice game blue" (or worse), no anything else.  I don't even like exchanging pleasantries of any kind with anyone when the game ends.  If the winning team thanks you, and you even say, "You're welcome," someone may interpret it as meaning you were biased.

[Umpire in Chief]

It may be obvious, but I would add to inform your assigner to no longer send you to that location. 

[Forest Ump]

 Runners on first and second and one out.  ........................ Since the runner from second had broken for third I was up the line a little watching to make sure he touched third base, so I was not focused on the first baseman.  But I was sort of looking at both and did not see a bobble.  I saw the first baseman catch the ball kind of awkwardly in the palm of his glove rather than the web, but he still appeared from my vantage point to hold onto the ball.  My partner looked at me and asked if I saw a bobble.  I stated no and gave the "out" signal. 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

A couple of thoughts here. You don't need to come up the left field line on this play. You can still pick up the touch from the right field side and then turn your attention to helping your partner with a pulled foot, swipe tag or in your case a bobbled ball. If your partner came to you for help, it's still his call. Let him make it.

[KLAH316]

About 10 minutes later after taking my plate gear off and chatting with my partner a white truck pulls up and blocks me from driving out of my parking space. I was in the car and the engine was running. The offensive coach that tried to appeal the last out gets out of his truck and walks over to my window and asks me to roll it down. I roll it down a little and he accuses me of swearing at his assistant coach. I told him that's ridiculous, that I didn't say anything to any of the coaches. He then states that I said "Here's your F*#King balls" when I dropped their balls on the ground. I told him I said "Want your balls?". I emphatically told him that I've never sworn at a coach and never would. I told him he needed to get in his truck and leave. He said he would but remained at my car door. At this point I felt threatened and was not comfortable with the position I was in so I opened the door to get out of my car.

 

At this point, you are not an umpire talking to a coach anymore, you are responsible for your safety and need to act accordingly.....

Absolutely NO NEED to try to explain yourself to him. 

It's a "Get out of my way!" and you have to have an "Or Else" mentality.  It may be easier for me to deal with based on my occupation, but as an umpire you already have learned "Command Presence" so it's time to use it to protect your a$$!

[umpire_scott]

Next time just drop the game balls in the vicinity of home plate. The HT will pick them up and you can focus on getting off the field with your partner rather than going towards either dugout.

 Through one of the dugouts was the only way to leave the field on this particular field.

[umpire_scott]

I have always been told (thankfully never had to use it) to do what catsbackr has said if things look like they may get bad. Go to the gas station the next town over and change there, if not going all the way home in gear.

 

I honestly was shocked it came to what it did.  After I did not overrule the call I assumed that they would move on.  As we were leaving one of the other fields didn't have umpires so we even stopped there and were working with those fans on finding out where their umpires were.  So when I went out to the parking lot I had no inclination that anything was going to happen.

[umpire_scott]

 

 Runners on first and second and one out.  ........................ Since the runner from second had broken for third I was up the line a little watching to make sure he touched third base, so I was not focused on the first baseman.  But I was sort of looking at both and did not see a bobble.  I saw the first baseman catch the ball kind of awkwardly in the palm of his glove rather than the web, but he still appeared from my vantage point to hold onto the ball.  My partner looked at me and asked if I saw a bobble.  I stated no and gave the "out" signal. 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

A couple of thoughts here. You don't need to come up the left field line on this play. You can still pick up the touch from the right field side and then turn your attention to helping your partner with a pulled foot, swipe tag or in your case a bobbled ball. If your partner came to you for help, it's still his call. Let him make it.

 

I was not very far up the line.  I had simply come out from behind the plate like I normally would to make a call at home.  But since the base umpire was focused on the calls at first and second I had to watch for the touch at third.  I was in a position to see a bobble of pulled foot, but my focus was on the runner rounding third and coming home.

 

[umpire_scott]

About 10 minutes later after taking my plate gear off and chatting with my partner a white truck pulls up and blocks me from driving out of my parking space. I was in the car and the engine was running. The offensive coach that tried to appeal the last out gets out of his truck and walks over to my window and asks me to roll it down. I roll it down a little and he accuses me of swearing at his assistant coach. I told him that's ridiculous, that I didn't say anything to any of the coaches. He then states that I said "Here's your F*#King balls" when I dropped their balls on the ground. I told him I said "Want your balls?". I emphatically told him that I've never sworn at a coach and never would. I told him he needed to get in his truck and leave. He said he would but remained at my car door. At this point I felt threatened and was not comfortable with the position I was in so I opened the door to get out of my car.

 

At this point, you are not an umpire talking to a coach anymore, you are responsible for your safety and need to act accordingly.....

Absolutely NO NEED to try to explain yourself to him. 

It's a "Get out of my way!" and you have to have an "Or Else" mentality.  It may be easier for me to deal with based on my occupation, but as an umpire you already have learned "Command Presence" so it's time to use it to protect your a$$!

 

I agree that I have to have that mentality, but I was unable to express that seated in my car.  That is why I got our of the car.  It's hard to command much presence sitting in a seat while I guys is looking down at you.

[Mike Prince]

 

Next time just drop the game balls in the vicinity of home plate. The HT will pick them up and you can focus on getting off the field with your partner rather than going towards either dugout.

 Through one of the dugouts was the only way to leave the field on this particular field.

 

 

Understood (although without seeing the field I would question if there are access gates for field equipment either up a base line or in the outfield fence, that is something I check on every field as I approach/enter).  If a dugout's the only option I would always pick the winner's side.

 

Not criticizing, just trying to offer constructive feedback to emphasize you never know what's going to happen so be prepared for the worst.

[UmpJM]

Scott,

 

1. Why are you concerning yourself with what the score is? And so persistently.

 

2. How do you "sort of look at both" the play at 1B and the runner approaching 3B? Which is a higher priority for you to watch?

 

3. Why did you give the "out signal" after giving your partner the information he requested?

 

4. They ALWAYS want the baseballs back. No need to ask.

 

5. What umpire training have you had?

 

JM

[BigUmpire]

More of my 2 cents as an umpire that has been attacked and had to deal with the after effects of this situation.

 

1. Assume that every game has set some coach or fan off (you would be surprised)
2. If it is your last game you have one goal: get in your vehicle and get off of the property NOW! In uniform and plate gear! You can change down the road.
3. This is not a cowardly act. You are just preventing a situation that all will regret the next day. You should establish two reputations. 1. “Wow that umpire is always gone real fast after a game!†2. “Don’t screw with him!†Both are good.
4. If not your last game stay with your partner.
5. Strength in numbers. Walk out together and stay together. Don’t let you partner get more than 6 feet from you. Have your keys in your hand. Know where the panic button is on you remote.
6. If approached by anyone start yelling loudly for them to stay 10 feet away and/or leave. Watch their hands. Move to the other side of your vehicle. Press the panic button on your remote. Your goal is to maintain some distance, make enough noise to attract attention and convince the accoster to leave. If they continue into your “safe zone†have your partner call 911 let them see him do this. If they continue to advance assume they are going to assault you and defend yourself. Get your defensive item in your hands NOW. If they state “I just want to talk†YELL “I don’t and won’t, stay back†Never turn your back on them!
7. If you are uncomfortable OR unable to carry a firearm have something else in the car. Buy a BIG Maglight, turn it on. I have a bat and ax handle painted florescent yellow (best) in the passenger seat. Have something and show it if the person starts enters your safe zone. I always carry something else in my car BUT we won’t talk about it here. It is amazing what a green laser attached to something else will do to slow people down. (PM me for more on this if you want)
8. Continue to yell loudly and warn. Continue watching their hands, keep yelling. Best first move is to poke the end of the bat, ax handle or Maglight quickly and HARD in their sternum. Stay away from their head. Most people use their hands to attack you. Render their hands and arms useless next if need be.
9. Don’t assume you are a big tough umpire and that will deter all. I am 6’8’ 340lbs and was accosted and had my arm broken by a little guy. My size and build did not slow him down one bit. My mistake was letting him in my safe zone without protection. That never happened again
10. My son in law is lawyer. He concurs with all the above.

The above recommendations are for extreme situations BUT, be ready.

 

#1 rule; Distance equals safety.  

[carolinablue]

I agree with #1. Most people are good people but some just can't handle competetion.Losing brings the worst out in them. Most people see it for what it is, a game. Then there are some that are OK. with umpires until they call their son or grandson, who does no wrong, out. It has to be you because Johnny would never ever strike out. You are a sick individual for doing it.

Then there are some people who the sight of navy and gray just turns their stomach. To them we are a necessary evil and nothing else. I think it's safe to assume there is a least one of these type of people at every game we work. Somebody is always unhappy at every game. 99% of the time we never see them but they are there, and given the right place and right time they will introduce themselves to us.

[BalkHawk]

if some dad approaches me after the game saying he just wants to talk about a ruling, I'm supposed to scream as loud as I can and point the laser-sighted pistol-grip shotty at him?

and if I pm you, you will tell me all about how many guns you have and how you can't wait for the next sucker who gives you an excuse?

[BigUmpire]

if some dad approaches me after the game saying he just wants to talk about a ruling, I'm supposed to scream as loud as I can and point the laser-sighted pistol-grip shotty at him?

and if I pm you, you will tell me all about how many guns you have and how you can't wait for the next sucker who gives you an excuse?

Yes on both. I can also email you my x-rays of my arm and the lost days of umpiring I had after being hit.

You are naive.

[BigUmpire]

BalkHawk

 

Have you read the thread "Have people Completely Lost Their Minds?"

It is getting worse.

Have you called in all parts of the US?

Must be nice living in Disneyland.

[JaxRolo]

had a game the other night where a team beat the other on a 10 run mercy. During the game I has called an IFF back on the edge of the dirt and the outfield grass. The field dropped it and we called the out. The call went against the team that won. After the game as we are walking out I happen to look up at the press box and the scorekeeper gave me a hideous look and said "That was the worst call i have ever seen." I stopped and said "That must have been your son I called out" then kept walking. Didn't hear another word. These people are just idiots.