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Batter is a statue at plate with bat over the plate.....

Mike Prince

By Mike Prince
in Situations

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Mike Prince

Mike Prince

Posted
Posted

Batter steps in and before the pitcher even starts his windup the batter holds his bat straight out (horizontally) over the plate at waist level.  Makes no motion towards the pitch as it comes in, he is completely frozen in a "check swing" position.

 

If the pitch is out of the zone do you have a ball or strike?

 

Am posting here after an entertaining discussion with a partner about this the other night after a game.

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johnnyg08
johnnyg08

Ball.

mstaylor
mstaylor

Most softball codes have made this a strike, no baseball codes have. A bunt attempt is an intentional attempt to hit the ball. 

Rich Ives
Rich Ives

And you would be wrong.   "2.00 A BUNT is a batted ball not swung at, but intentionally met with the bat and tapped slowly within the infield."   You can't intentionally meet the ball with the bat

BalkHawk

BalkHawk

Posted
Posted

Ball. Even if he squares and holds the bat over the plate, you can't have a bunt attempt unless he tries to put the bat on the ball (or actually makes contact.) This is also not an aggressive attempt to swing.

24sdad

24sdad

Posted
Posted

One of the definitions of a strike is a pitch "swung at."  That is all you have to judge, whether the batter attempted to swing at the pitch or offer, or bunt at the pitch.  Did the batter attempt to strike at the ball?  Based on your posting and like Johnny said, -  ball

mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
Posted

Most softball codes have made this a strike, no baseball codes have. A bunt attempt is an intentional attempt to hit the ball. 

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Mike Prince

Mike Prince

Posted
  • Author
Posted

For what it's worth, I am in the "ball" camp as well on this.  Seems every umpire I have a discussion (vs. internet chatter) with on this instantly says "strike" and ignores the fact that there is no offer at the pitch.  Go figure.

 

I've had this happen twice in 5 years, both in rec ball 12U games.  Ball both times.

 

If the batter squares to bunt I am getting a strike unless he visibly pulls the bat back.  As I understood (edit:  Incorrectly, sorry mst)  mst's post 7 there is intent to hit as soon as he squares to bunt.

ScubaUmp

ScubaUmp

Posted
Posted

Baseball it's Ball! Unless he offers, and OP makes no reference of an offer.

 

 

LL Softball has made this a strike.

24sdad

24sdad

Posted
Posted

If the batter squares to bunt I am getting a strike unless he visibly pulls the bat back.  As mst states in post 7 there is intent to hit as soon as he squares to bunt.

Mike, I understand where you are coming from and doubt you would ever see this at anything higher than LL.  In fact, I think LL addresses this along the lines of "simply holding the bat in the strike zone is not a strike" (unless of course the pitch is).  I could be wrong, but maybe someone with a LL rule book could clarify.

Rich Ives

Rich Ives

Posted
Posted

If the batter squares to bunt I am getting a strike unless he visibly pulls the bat back.  As mst states in post 7 there is intent to hit as soon as he squares to bunt.

 

And you would be wrong.

 

"2.00 A BUNT is a batted ball not swung at, but intentionally met with the bat and tapped slowly within the infield."

 

You can't intentionally meet the ball with the bat without moving it to the ball.

 

Just standing there isn't intent. Doesn't matter what stance you are using.  There must be an actual attempt.

  • Like 1
johnnyg08

johnnyg08

Posted
Posted

Well then I agree am wrong.  Just to clarify, I have not seen the freeze on a bunt.  Now if I do I know the correct call.  Thanks.

 

No worries Mike.  I had an ejection on this type of play at the VFW level.  

 

The VFW coach is a head high school coach in a reputable program.  One of many who didn't know the rule, or felt like being a rat.  Or both.

  • Like 1
UmpJM

UmpJM

Posted
Posted

If the pitch comes "close" to the bat, I'm judging it an "offer" and getting the strike. Of course, it's likely in the strike zone then, anyway.

 

If it's not (close nor in the strike zone, i.e.), it's a ball.

 

JM

johnnyg08

johnnyg08

Posted
Posted

If the pitch comes "close" to the bat, I'm judging it an "offer" and getting the strike. Of course, it's likely in the strike zone then, anyway.

 

If it's not (close nor in the strike zone, i.e.), it's a ball.

 

JM

 

This is absolutely the proper way to umpire this situation.  

noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

As mst states in post 7 there is intent to hit as soon as he squares to bunt.

If that were true then it would be a strike even if he pulled the bat back -- he offered and you cant "undo" an offer (unless, of course, you are using the model CTRL-Z bat lol).

 

So since the conclusion isn't true, then the supposition must not be true.

 

and FED has the same wording (or at least the same meaning) as the LL wording posted above

24sdad

24sdad

Posted
Posted

Yes, yes, you are all correct and I was wrong.  Not every interpretation is correct as I have shown here.  We can move on now  :Horse:

Mike, if I am your BU and this happens, come to me with "did he go?"  There is no way the little booger picker held the bat completely still and from 60+ feet away, i can bet you I saw movement, thus an "offer" at the pitch.  I'll get a strike for you brother.

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Mike Prince

Mike Prince

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Yes, yes, you are all correct and I was wrong.  Not every interpretation is correct as I have shown here.  We can move on now  :Horse:

Mike, if I am your BU and this happens, come to me with "did he go?"  There is no way the little booger picker held the bat completely still and from 60+ feet away, i can bet you I saw movement, thus an "offer" at the pitch.  I'll get a strike for you brother.

 

Ha ha thanks!  Goes to show that umpiring is easier with both feet on the dirt than with both hands on the keyboard!

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Haid D' Salaami

Haid D' Salaami

Posted
Posted

Ball. Even if he squares and holds the bat over the plate, you can't have a bunt attempt unless he tries to put the bat on the ball (or actually makes contact.) This is also not an aggressive attempt to swing.

This was a really good discussion at Umpire school.... it was about 50-50 on whether or not just holding a bat out there in the Bunt position is an attempt.. cause some say when he squared around and held it out there, that was an attempt.

Rich Ives

Rich Ives

Posted
Posted

 

Yes, yes, you are all correct and I was wrong.  Not every interpretation is correct as I have shown here.  We can move on now  :Horse:

Mike, if I am your BU and this happens, come to me with "did he go?"  There is no way the little booger picker held the bat completely still and from 60+ feet away, i can bet you I saw movement, thus an "offer" at the pitch.  I'll get a strike for you brother.

 

 

Don't.

24sdad

24sdad

Posted
Posted

 

 

Yes, yes, you are all correct and I was wrong.  Not every interpretation is correct as I have shown here.  We can move on now  :Horse:

Mike, if I am your BU and this happens, come to me with "did he go?"  There is no way the little booger picker held the bat completely still and from 60+ feet away, i can bet you I saw movement, thus an "offer" at the pitch.  I'll get a strike for you brother.

 

 

Don't.

 

...cause it's cheating, right?  And takes away from the integrity of the game, right? And it's just, well, not right, right?

 

Rich, Rich, Rich...my attempt to come to my brother's aid through the use of whimsical exaggeration eluded you, right?

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