Professionalism

[Haid D' Salaami]

Andrew once you go to a good clinic, they are gonna say the same thing, that all umpires on the field should echo and balk ...but Maybe I'm wrong ...?

[yawetag]

Andrew once you go to a good clinic, they are gonna say the same thing, that all umpires on the field should echo and balk ...but Maybe I'm wrong ...?

 

"See a balk, call a balk." If I didn't see it, I'm not calling it.

[Replacematt]

Andrew once you go to a good clinic, they are gonna say the same thing, that all umpires on the field should echo and balk ...but Maybe I'm wrong ...?

 

"See a balk, call a balk." If I didn't see it, I'm not calling it.

You are correct. You aren't calling it, you are echoing it.

[Haid D' Salaami]

 

Andrew once you go to a good clinic, they are gonna say the same thing, that all umpires on the field should echo and balk ...but Maybe I'm wrong ...?

 

"See a balk, call a balk." If I didn't see it, I'm not calling it.

You are correct. You aren't calling it, you are echoing it.

Thanks Matt....

[yawetag]

 

Andrew once you go to a good clinic, they are gonna say the same thing, that all umpires on the field should echo and balk ...but Maybe I'm wrong ...?

 

"See a balk, call a balk." If I didn't see it, I'm not calling it.

You are correct. You aren't calling it, you are echoing it.

 

It's a simple case of agreeing to disagree. I see no benefit in echoing a balk I didn't see.

[BalkHawk]

guess what? You shouldn't have missed it because we actually get paid to call these things. I'm not mad at you because you did though. It happens. And guess what else? There was only one person in the crowd who knew it was a balk and he was in the john. So now we have one official doing his best to keep the integrity of the game alive while half the crowd thinks he's cheating they're boys, the other half thinks he messed up but to their benefit, and heaven for-freakin-bid anyone look your way because you're still hands-on-knees, adulterating some hot mom, you never saw anything wrong, and now they KNOW that your partner messed up.

Or, you could echo that SH*#. In fact, you could make a habit of echoing it and get good at echoing it so now when you have to just echo it instead of nailing it, the crowd now knows that they must have missed something because there's no way both umpires just messed up simultaneously.

Of course this is only myself agreeing to disagree.

[AZump78]

Andrew once you go to a good clinic, they are gonna say the same thing, that all umpires on the field should echo and balk ...but Maybe I'm wrong ...? "See a balk, call a balk." If I didn't see it, I'm not calling it. You are correct. You aren't calling it, you are echoing it. It's a simple case of agreeing to disagree. I see no benefit in echoing a balk I didn't see.

Refer to posts 13, 19, 20, 22 for the benefits.

[yawetag]

guess what? You shouldn't have missed it because we actually get paid to call these things. I'm not mad at you because you did though. It happens. And guess what else? There was only one person in the crowd who knew it was a balk and he was in the john. So now we have one official doing his best to keep the integrity of the game alive while half the crowd thinks he's cheating they're boys, the other half thinks he messed up but to their benefit, and heaven for-freakin-bid anyone look your way because you're still hands-on-knees, adulterating some hot mom, you never saw anything wrong, and now they KNOW that your partner messed up.

Or, you could echo that SH*#. In fact, you could make a habit of echoing it and get good at echoing it so now when you have to just echo it instead of nailing it, the crowd now knows that they must have missed something because there's no way both umpires just messed up simultaneously.

Of course this is only myself agreeing to disagree.

 

The day I give any care at all about what the crowd thinks about my calls and mechanics is the day I pack up my gear, turn back the rest of my games, and find something else to do with my time. The crowd has, at most, very little knowledge in how an umpire does his job, and any suggestion that I change my mechanics to appease them is one I'll spend little time thinking about. And, your assertation that I'm not doing my best to keep the integrity alive is an insult to the work I do on and off the field. There's not an umpire on here who can honestly say they've never missed a balk.

 

While we're talking hypotheticals here, let's assume your partner called a balk incorrectly and you know it's wrong. Do you still echo?

 

This issue is one that crops up every year and every year there's a disagreement on how to handle it. I'm not saying your way is wrong, but I disagree with doing it myself. You'll find well-respected, highly-experienced umpires on both sides of the debate, and I've never seen a mechanics or rules book tell me either way.

[BalkHawk]

First, let me say that I did not mean to question your integrity. Re-reading my post, I can see that I chose to phrase that like a d!ck. I was aiming to paint an entertaining picture. Let me make it clear that I don't know you and have never seen you work. Also, its no secret that I have, in the process of learning, missed balks and called non-existant balks. (I will never call a "no set" balk just as the pitcher makes a pick-off move... again).

IMO, the fact that the crowd is generally ignorant, with a short attention span is the very reason echoing a balk is so effective. Don't you "sell" a whacker at first? Ever explain that a batter-runner is safe because the baseman was "off the bag"? I think you may have and I don't think it was to convince yourself.

Now, if I someone makes a bad balk call, am I going to go reverse it? Send the runners back? Is there ever a situation where I would expect an umpire to reverse his own balk? So why not sell the SH*# out of it so everyone else can feel confident that they aren't getting screwed and give the guy hell at the postgame.

I think its relevant to say here that in my first year when I called the no-set balk on a pickoff move, the more experienced PU quickly saw the situation and that I was soiling my poly-wools. He came out assertive and confident and enforced my erroneous balk. The game must go on.

Finally, I agree that better umpires than myself are on both sides of the fence. In reality, only umpires could care less, either way. But my season doesn't start back for a couple weeks and I haven't got much better to do than agree to disagree.

[BalkHawk]

in the "a" position-

I can see a check swing/foul off the batter equally as good whether stand there with my hands in my pockets or if I lean in with each pitch. It isn't the same though. The perception will be that I antithesize "professionalism". And as the OP said, the AA guys all echoed. I want to do everything the guys who are fighting for MLB contracts do.

[spiritump]

guess what? You shouldn't have missed it because we actually get paid to call these things. I'm not mad at you because you did though. It happens. And guess what else? There was only one person in the crowd who knew it was a balk and he was in the john. So now we have one official doing his best to keep the integrity of the game alive while half the crowd thinks he's cheating they're boys, the other half thinks he messed up but to their benefit, and heaven for-freakin-bid anyone look your way because you're still hands-on-knees, adulterating some hot mom, you never saw anything wrong, and now they KNOW that your partner messed up.

Or, you could echo that SH*#. In fact, you could make a habit of echoing it and get good at echoing it so now when you have to just echo it instead of nailing it, the crowd now knows that they must have missed something because there's no way both umpires just messed up simultaneously.

Of course this is only myself agreeing to disagree.

 

The day I give any care at all about what the crowd thinks about my calls and mechanics is the day I pack up my gear, turn back the rest of my games, and find something else to do with my time. The crowd has, at most, very little knowledge in how an umpire does his job, and any suggestion that I change my mechanics to appease them is one I'll spend little time thinking about. And, your assertation that I'm not doing my best to keep the integrity alive is an insult to the work I do on and off the field. There's not an umpire on here who can honestly say they've never missed a balk.

 

While we're talking hypotheticals here, let's assume your partner called a balk incorrectly and you know it's wrong. Do you still echo?

 

This issue is one that crops up every year and every year there's a disagreement on how to handle it. I'm not saying your way is wrong, but I disagree with doing it myself. You'll find well-respected, highly-experienced umpires on both sides of the debate, and I've never seen a mechanics or rules book tell me either way.

just a question-- when your partner call time do you echo it--if not how come--if you do echo did you know who asked your partner for time.

 

[yawetag]

just a question-- when your partner call time do you echo it--if not how come--if you do echo did you know who asked your partner for time.

 

Do you echo your partner's strikes and balls, safes and outs, fairs and fouls? What about his INT and OBS calls? Do you also watch the catch and no catch and echo the call when your area of responsibility is the runner(s)?

[spiritump]

just a question-- when your partner call time do you echo it--if not how come--if you do echo did you know who asked your partner for time.

 

Do you echo your partner's strikes and balls, safes and outs, fairs and fouls? What about his INT and OBS calls? Do you also watch the catch and no catch and echo the call when your area of responsibility is the runner(s)?

you answer my question first then I will answer your question 

[BalkHawk]

I'm picturing how much I could enjoy echoing "strike" calls from the bases. You know, umpiring mechanics seem to be changing and updating more every year; keep your fingers crossed. At least we should be echoing to the coaches box. They always seem so surprised to see a called strike.

Again, if I echo an out, I would surely have too much fun and besides, everyone would know it was only an echo. If I echo the balk correctly, it may be an echo or I may have just been a split-second later in making the call.

If there is any runner on base, yes, I echo a close and exciting "foul" call to the nearest runner and the runners who get lost on the basepath. However, when he calls "fair", I do not echo. Rather, I give the scratch the noggin mechanic.

INT and OBS, no echo except for a subsequent "time" call.

Yes, I echo some "time" calls.

Some may call it over-umpiring. I say echoing, in general, gives the impression that the umpires are unified and interested in the game.

Besides, we are paid to make calls, after all.

[AZump78]

Andrew, who would it take from a umpire/instructor perspective to bring you around that echoing a balk is the proper thing to do? If Jim Evans or Hunter W or someone like that said all the same points listed above as to WHY you should do it, would you then cede the point? Just curious why you would be so steadfast when the reasons have already been clearly spelled out by fellow umpires on this board who have been fortunate to have been taught this firsthand by the best umpires on planet Earth...

[yawetag]

It's not about who tells me to do it, but the reasoning why. From day one, it's drilled to only call what you see, including "one play, one call" and the likes. We're told to only be a backup for our partner when they make calls and to keep our mouth shut unless he asks for help. We're trained to intently watch our primary area of responsibility and only watch other areas when it's possible. Most importantly, we train "If you didn't see it, it didn't happen."

 

Yet all that training is thrown out the window when someone says "Echo your partner when he calls a balk." It flies in the face of everything we drill into newer umpires, yet it's spouted by some to be a crime if it's not done. In effect, we're teaching umpires to blindly follow his partner, right or wrong, in calling something he, at best, didn't see or, at worst, disagrees with it being a balk. The reasoning given breaks down into two categories: (1) sticking together as a team and (2) keeping coaches/fan/players from arguing. I'll take both separately.

 

The primary argument you all give is that it shows teamwork between partners. This is typed out as if the only way my partner and I can connect on the field is by echoing a single call that, hopefully, only happens once or twice a game. It's akin to a close play at the plate or a banger at 1B, in that the umpire might see one, maybe two, in a game. Yet every umpire would agree that these calls are to be called strictly by the umpire positioned at the appropriate base -- with no response by the other umpire. There's no cohesiveness that magically happens because I'm echoing a balk call that you saw.

 

The other argument is that it prevents backlash from everyone else involved in the game. "Oh, they both called it, so it must have happened." In a word: bullSH*#. Any fan who is going to yell about one umpire calling a balk on his 8-year-old, future-MLB-star child is going to complain when two do it. Any coach that's going to come out and ask the reason for the balk when one calls it will most likely come out when two call it. Then, I'm forced to say, "Gee, coach, I have no idea. My partner called it, but I don't know why. Go talk to him." That looks more professional?

 

To be fair, if you want to echo a balk call, do so. I won't complain about it and won't even have a negative opinion if you do it. But don't espouse it as some holy grail of umpiring that separates the best from the worst, treating it as if echoing a balk call raises your abilities from a 10 to an 11. It's a simple mechanic that, as far as I know, won't keep me from moving up; if it did, I'll change my opinion fast, just as you all would if doing the opposite would give you a promotion.

[Haid D' Salaami]

BTW I do echo the calling of time, so everyone knows time is called... echoing of the balk call.. its what is taught at Umpire School.. and the PBUC eval course... so maybe they are wrong.

[spiritump]

if everybody in the bar says your drunk--put down the beer 

[spiritump]

It's not about who tells me to do it, but the reasoning why. From day one, it's drilled to only call what you see, including "one play, one call" and the likes. We're told to only be a backup for our partner when they make calls and to keep our mouth shut unless he asks for help. We're trained to intently watch our primary area of responsibility and only watch other areas when it's possible. Most importantly, we train "If you didn't see it, it didn't happen."

 

Yet all that training is thrown out the window when someone says "Echo your partner when he calls a balk." It flies in the face of everything we drill into newer umpires, yet it's spouted by some to be a crime if it's not done. In effect, we're teaching umpires to blindly follow his partner, right or wrong, in calling something he, at best, didn't see or, at worst, disagrees with it being a balk. The reasoning given breaks down into two categories: (1) sticking together as a team and (2) keeping coaches/fan/players from arguing. I'll take both separately.

 

The primary argument you all give is that it shows teamwork between partners. This is typed out as if the only way my partner and I can connect on the field is by echoing a single call that, hopefully, only happens once or twice a game. It's akin to a close play at the plate or a banger at 1B, in that the umpire might see one, maybe two, in a game. Yet every umpire would agree that these calls are to be called strictly by the umpire positioned at the appropriate base -- with no response by the other umpire. There's no cohesiveness that magically happens because I'm echoing a balk call that you saw.

 

The other argument is that it prevents backlash from everyone else involved in the game. "Oh, they both called it, so it must have happened." In a word: bullSH*#. Any fan who is going to yell about one umpire calling a balk on his 8-year-old, future-MLB-star child is going to complain when two do it. Any coach that's going to come out and ask the reason for the balk when one calls it will most likely come out when two call it. Then, I'm forced to say, "Gee, coach, I have no idea. My partner called it, but I don't know why. Go talk to him." That looks more professional?

 

To be fair, if you want to echo a balk call, do so. I won't complain about it and won't even have a negative opinion if you do it. But don't espouse it as some holy grail of umpiring that separates the best from the worst, treating it as if echoing a balk call raises your abilities from a 10 to an 11. It's a simple mechanic that, as far as I know, won't keep me from moving up; if it did, I'll change my opinion fast, just as you all would if doing the opposite would give you a promotion.

 

it is the little things that make a good umpire a better umpire

[hckyosgood30]

Ok yes it's a simple mechanic but if everyone is equal to you what do you think stands out? I can tell you I know guys who have been dinged on this in a college eval same as mirroring time. If you hate it and are willing to die on it. God bless, for me; he who gives me my schedule makes the rules. So I will do what odd mechanics they want until I transcend that level.

[AZump78]

It's not about who tells me to do it, but the reasoning why. From day one, it's drilled to only call what you see, including "one play, one call" and the likes. We're told to only be a backup for our partner when they make calls and to keep our mouth shut unless he asks for help. We're trained to intently watch our primary area of responsibility and only watch other areas when it's possible. Most importantly, we train "If you didn't see it, it didn't happen." Yet all that training is thrown out the window when someone says "Echo your partner when he calls a balk." It flies in the face of everything we drill into newer umpires, yet it's spouted by some to be a crime if it's not done. In effect, we're teaching umpires to blindly follow his partner, right or wrong, in calling something he, at best, didn't see or, at worst, disagrees with it being a balk. The reasoning given breaks down into two categories: (1) sticking together as a team and (2) keeping coaches/fan/players from arguing. I'll take both separately. The primary argument you all give is that it shows teamwork between partners. This is typed out as if the only way my partner and I can connect on the field is by echoing a single call that, hopefully, only happens once or twice a game. It's akin to a close play at the plate or a banger at 1B, in that the umpire might see one, maybe two, in a game. Yet every umpire would agree that these calls are to be called strictly by the umpire positioned at the appropriate base -- with no response by the other umpire. There's no cohesiveness that magically happens because I'm echoing a balk call that you saw. The other argument is that it prevents backlash from everyone else involved in the game. "Oh, they both called it, so it must have happened." In a word: bullSH*#. Any fan who is going to yell about one umpire calling a balk on his 8-year-old, future-MLB-star child is going to complain when two do it. Any coach that's going to come out and ask the reason for the balk when one calls it will most likely come out when two call it. Then, I'm forced to say, "Gee, coach, I have no idea. My partner called it, but I don't know why. Go talk to him." That looks more professional? To be fair, if you want to echo a balk call, do so. I won't complain about it and won't even have a negative opinion if you do it. But don't espouse it as some holy grail of umpiring that separates the best from the worst, treating it as if echoing a balk call raises your abilities from a 10 to an 11. It's a simple mechanic that, as far as I know, won't keep me from moving up; if it did, I'll change my opinion fast, just as you all would if doing the opposite would give you a promotion.

You aren't calling it, you are echoing it. So it files in the face of nothing. And the argument is that is sells the call, and that is 1000% true. Your example of the coach coming out on you would never happen, because your partner would handle it as soon as he steps on the field. Oh and by the way, if someone above you like an evaluator, or MLB umpire says to do it, with or without a reason you agree with, it would be wise to do it. They are trying to help you get better.

[noumpere]

Just to add to the other side of this I was specifically told at a division 1 camp this past fall not to echo it unless I had it too.  Now if its called and play stops (or should stop) then you can come up with the time call to help award the runners but I dont consider that to be echoing the balk call

[BalkHawk]

what does, "don't echo unless you have to" mean?

[AZump78]

You are right Moto-doesn't make a whole lotta sense.

[Richvee]

what does, "don't echo unless you have to" mean?

That's not what he said..He said  Unless you have IT, TOO.