BU calls play at the plate

[Jocko]

Go out and stay out is a 3 man mechanic. You should try to rotate home if possible. You are making the PU do a lot of work.

Nope. I ezpect to get all 4 bags if my BU goes out. That's just the way it is. Alot of "work" ??? Since when is umpiring NOT "work?"

[mrumpiresir]

No runners and BU goes out: PU takes BR into 2B or 3B if he advances there.  PU does not go back home.  Once the BU sees the outfielder control the ball and throw it back toward the infield, he will rotate home in foul territory and take any play with the BR advancing there.

 

 

PU does rotate home if the BU doesn't make it. It is very possible that a ball could be rolling around the RF corner causing the BU to delay his return. If he can make the plate, it's his, if he can't the PU has it all. 

This is the way I was taught and it only makes sense.  As BU if I go out I will return to cover plays at the plate.  It's good teamwork and looks sharp.  The only thing that must happen is communication between you and your partner.

 

Going out and staying out is a three man mechanic.

[Jocko]

When I get home, I will quote the PBUC 2 Man where it says go out=stay out. It's already been quoted out of that same book for BU to rotate home. How can it be both ways from the same manual? Anyone have JE's maximizing?

[yawetag]

2.4 Fly Balls and Line Drives to the Outfield - Base Umpire Goes Out

With no one on base, should the base umpire go out on a fly ball or line drive to the outfield (or, for that matter, should the base umpire go out on any ball down the right field line), the plate umpire will immediately come out from behind home plate and pick up the responsibility of the batter-runner all the way around the base paths. This would include plays back into 1st base, plays at 2nd or 3rd base, or -- unless the base man has come back into the infield and assumed a position at home plate -- plyys at the plate.

If the base umpire goes out on the ball, after he has ruled on the play he must make a decision whether or not he should stay with the ball or come running back towards home plate in foul territory for a possible play at home on the batter-runner. This decision is to be made by considering what might happen to the ball while it is in the outfield. For example, if the batted ball is hooking towards the bullpen, or if the ball is deaded towards an out-of-play line, or if there is a possibility of spectator interference, then the base umpire should not come home but instead stay with the ball. In that case, the plate umpire would take the batter-runner all the way around, staying on the inside of the diamond all the way -- even if it results in a play being made on the batter-runner at home plate.

However, if the outfield area is completely enclosed and the base umpire determines that there is no possibility of the ball going out of the (as well as no possibility of spectator interference), then after the base umpire has redered his decision, he should turn, watching the ball, and hustle home in foul territory. The base umpire should break towards home as soon as he determiens that there will be no "problems" with the ball (i.e.,  the ball  will not go under or through the fence; no spectator interference will be possible; etc.). In going home on this type of play, the base umpire should move into foul territory as soon as possible, keeping his eye on the ball (in order to see how the play is developing), as well as watching where he is going on his way home. When the base umpire reaches home plate and is actually in position where he can make a call, then, and only then, should he inform his partner that he is home by communicating, "I'm home; I'm home!" or "I've got the plate; I've got the plate!" Until the plate umpire is called off by the base umpire, the plate umpire should assume that any play at the plate is his responsibility, and he should continue to take the batter-runner around the base paths (in fair territory) all the way to home plate if necessary.

If the plate umpire ends up with the batter-runner when this type of play is over, he should remain with the batter-runner until the base umpire comes back into the infield and assumes this responsibility. Verbal communication would be used at this point (for example: "I've got it," or "I've got him").

[johnnyg08]

I will check Maximizing.  

 

IMO, if I, as PU have to make a call at home plate, after properly following BR around 1B (via the 1b side of the mound), getting position and angle to 2b, then following him on the infield grass to 3B, then all the way back to PU after the overthrow and my BU was probably no more than 15 feet off of the line in RF, we're going to have a serious post game discussion.  Now, this hasn't happened in 15 years of umpiring, but the rotation is there for a reason.

[yawetag]

That's from PBUC's two-man "red book." It gives BU the option.

[johnnyg08]

2.4 Fly Balls and Line Drives to the Outfield - Base Umpire Goes Out

With no one on base, should the base umpire go out on a fly ball or line drive to the outfield (or, for that matter, should the base umpire go out on any ball down the right field line), the plate umpire will immediately come out from behind home plate and pick up the responsibility of the batter-runner all the way around the base paths. This would include plays back into 1st base, plays at 2nd or 3rd base, or -- unless the base man has come back into the infield and assumed a position at home plate -- plyys at the plate.

If the base umpire goes out on the ball, after he has ruled on the play he must make a decision whether or not he should stay with the ball or come running back towards home plate in foul territory for a possible play at home on the batter-runner. This decision is to be made by considering what might happen to the ball while it is in the outfield. For example, if the batted ball is hooking towards the bullpen, or if the ball is deaded towards an out-of-play line, or if there is a possibility of spectator interference, then the base umpire should not come home but instead stay with the ball. In that case, the plate umpire would take the batter-runner all the way around, staying on the inside of the diamond all the way -- even if it results in a play being made on the batter-runner at home plate.

However, if the outfield area is completely enclosed and the base umpire determines that there is no possibility of the ball going out of the (as well as no possibility of spectator interference), then after the base umpire has redered his decision, he should turn, watching the ball, and hustle home in foul territory. The base umpire should break towards home as soon as he determiens that there will be no "problems" with the ball (i.e.,  the ball  will not go under or through the fence; no spectator interference will be possible; etc.). In going home on this type of play, the base umpire should move into foul territory as soon as possible, keeping his eye on the ball (in order to see how the play is developing), as well as watching where he is going on his way home. When the base umpire reaches home plate and is actually in position where he can make a call, then, and only then, should he inform his partner that he is home by communicating, "I'm home; I'm home!" or "I've got the plate; I've got the plate!" Until the plate umpire is called off by the base umpire, the plate umpire should assume that any play at the plate is his responsibility, and he should continue to take the batter-runner around the base paths (in fair territory) all the way to home plate if necessary.

If the plate umpire ends up with the batter-runner when this type of play is over, he should remain with the batter-runner until the base umpire comes back into the infield and assumes this responsibility. Verbal communication would be used at this point (for example: "I've got it," or "I've got him").

 

 

That reads like the Red book.  I will check Maximizing.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

Go out and stay out is a 3 man mechanic. You should try to rotate home if possible. You are making the PU do a lot of work.

 

 

If your BU goes out in a two-man crew, he does it from "A", which means there are no runners, other than the batter-runner. Are you telling me you, as plate umpire, or any other reasonably-fit umpire, cannot cover ONE runner from the PU position ? 

[mrumpiresir]

Go out and stay out is a 3 man mechanic. You should try to rotate home if possible. You are making the PU do a lot of work.

 

 

If your BU goes out in a two-man crew, he does it from "A", which means there are no runners, other than the batter-runner. Are you telling me you, as plate umpire, or any other reasonably-fit umpire, cannot cover ONE runner from the PU position ? 

Nobody said the PU couldn't cover a single runner.

What is the purpose of going out and staying out in a two man system?  There are just too many things that could happen which could be handled with ease if the BU comes back to the infield.

 

Suppose the runner gets into a pickle?  do you think it makes sense for the PU to handle it while the BU is standing out in RF watching instead of participating?  Use common sense and act as the third team on the field.

 

Show some hustle.

[dumbdumb]

Well, the wheels started spinning when the OP was posed and the only thing I could think of is probably not in the book or coverage manuals, which means one should not do this.

 

If you are in a humongous stadium with a lot of room in foul territory, and if there is a runner on third only, and there is a high foul pop fly over towards the stands where the HPU has to run a country mile and you could have a trouble catch-no catch, along with fan interference, along with player staying in the park and any other similar situations, I as the umpire in C or B would probably move in towards the plate to take the tag up and a possible play at the plate if I saw that you were trapped and could no way in hell make it back to the plate for the call in time. Just my 2 cents and I know I am all wet behind the ears. That was the only thing that came to my mind from the OP. Sometimes, everything just cannot be black and white in the book, IMHO, and you just have to umpire and have your partners back in case he gets hung up with something that is not covered in the book. What do I know, I work 1 man neighborhood wiffle ball.

[JaxRolo]

Go out and stay out is a 3 man mechanic. You should try to rotate home if possible. You are making the PU do a lot of work.

 

He can handle it. Just as I can when I am PU

[johnnyg08]

Go out and stay out is a 3 man mechanic. You should try to rotate home if possible. You are making the PU do a lot of work.

 

He can handle it. Just as I can when I am PU

 

 

Yeah, I can handle working one man too, but that doesn't mean my partner should ignore his responsibilities. 

[zm1283]

Go out and stay out is a 3 man mechanic. You should try to rotate home if possible. You are making the PU do a lot of work.

Nope. I ezpect to get all 4 bags if my BU goes out. That's just the way it is. Alot of "work" ??? Since when is umpiring NOT "work?"

 

The CCA manual, which is what I go by, has the BU rotating home for a play there.  That is good enough for me.

 

2.4 Fly Balls and Line Drives to the Outfield - Base Umpire Goes Out

With no one on base, should the base umpire go out on a fly ball or line drive to the outfield (or, for that matter, should the base umpire go out on any ball down the right field line), the plate umpire will immediately come out from behind home plate and pick up the responsibility of the batter-runner all the way around the base paths. This would include plays back into 1st base, plays at 2nd or 3rd base, or -- unless the base man has come back into the infield and assumed a position at home plate -- plyys at the plate.

If the base umpire goes out on the ball, after he has ruled on the play he must make a decision whether or not he should stay with the ball or come running back towards home plate in foul territory for a possible play at home on the batter-runner. This decision is to be made by considering what might happen to the ball while it is in the outfield. For example, if the batted ball is hooking towards the bullpen, or if the ball is deaded towards an out-of-play line, or if there is a possibility of spectator interference, then the base umpire should not come home but instead stay with the ball. In that case, the plate umpire would take the batter-runner all the way around, staying on the inside of the diamond all the way -- even if it results in a play being made on the batter-runner at home plate.

However, if the outfield area is completely enclosed and the base umpire determines that there is no possibility of the ball going out of the (as well as no possibility of spectator interference), then after the base umpire has redered his decision, he should turn, watching the ball, and hustle home in foul territory. The base umpire should break towards home as soon as he determiens that there will be no "problems" with the ball (i.e.,  the ball  will not go under or through the fence; no spectator interference will be possible; etc.). In going home on this type of play, the base umpire should move into foul territory as soon as possible, keeping his eye on the ball (in order to see how the play is developing), as well as watching where he is going on his way home. When the base umpire reaches home plate and is actually in position where he can make a call, then, and only then, should he inform his partner that he is home by communicating, "I'm home; I'm home!" or "I've got the plate; I've got the plate!" Until the plate umpire is called off by the base umpire, the plate umpire should assume that any play at the plate is his responsibility, and he should continue to take the batter-runner around the base paths (in fair territory) all the way to home plate if necessary.

If the plate umpire ends up with the batter-runner when this type of play is over, he should remain with the batter-runner until the base umpire comes back into the infield and assumes this responsibility. Verbal communication would be used at this point (for example: "I've got it," or "I've got him").

 

This basically agrees with the CCA, albeit in a more specific manner.  

 

I will check Maximizing.  

 

IMO, if I, as PU have to make a call at home plate, after properly following BR around 1B (via the 1b side of the mound), getting position and angle to 2b, then following him on the infield grass to 3B, then all the way back to PU after the overthrow and my BU was probably no more than 15 feet off of the line in RF, we're going to have a serious post game discussion.  Now, this hasn't happened in 15 years of umpiring, but the rotation is there for a reason.

 

Exactly.  If I'm the PU and all the BU has done is rule "no catch" or pointed a ball fair and now he's standing there picking his a$$ in right field while I'm chasing a runner around the bases, I'm going to be pissed.  2-man is hard enough, especially at higher levels.  Don't make it harder by using "go out and stay out".  

 

Go out and stay out is a 3 man mechanic. You should try to rotate home if possible. You are making the PU do a lot of work.

 

 

If your BU goes out in a two-man crew, he does it from "A", which means there are no runners, other than the batter-runner. Are you telling me you, as plate umpire, or any other reasonably-fit umpire, cannot cover ONE runner from the PU position ? 

 

I didn't say I couldn't do it, I'm just not working it that way.  

[MidAmUmp]

Here's my $0.02 worth on this...and if I piss you off, sorry in advance

 

There have been some incredible discussions on here about important umpiring topics such as: Jacket tucking/not tucking, Plate coat or jacket on the plate (tucked or untucked), Buying a 5 gal. bucket and purchasing everything known to man minus a flush toilet to carry around with you so you are prepared for every unexpected event that could possibly happen to an umpire including a male umpire starting his menstrual cycle, and Listing each and every chest protector and face mask worn by each MLB umpire.  None of this crap amounts to a hill of beans in the umpiring world.   Show up on time, look the part, bust your ass and get your calls right!

 

Now the debate on this topic has transformed into whether you should come back and cover the plate on a potential in the park HR if you've gone out from A in the 2-umpire system.  This is the real nuts and bolts of umpiring.  We have seen several post what the PBUC Red Book and the Evans book says (although I don't know why you'd reference either one since they are for professional baseball and as far as I know none of you work professional baseball), but those along with the CCA and as far as I know the NFHS say to cover home instead of standing out in RF giving yourself a rectal exam.  So why is there a debate???  Do what the book says to do, not what you want to do!  If you have any desire to work at a higher level than you are at now, do what the book says to do!  I recently had a torn miniscus in my left knee.  I'm glad my Dr. did what the book said to do vs. doing what he might have felt like doing.

 

Here's the bottom line - Let's say you're working your first baseball game 1 level higher than you're currently working.  Neither team has seen you before.  They're sizing you up before you've even called a play.  In the 1st inning you have a sinking line drive that you decide to go out on and at the most get 5-6 steps before the play happens.  The RF dives and the ball skips by him.  The CF backs up the play, fields the ball and throws it back in to the 2nd base cutoff.  B/R is rounding 2nd on his way to 3rd.  NOW - you have a choice, you can either stay out on the play or retreat and work back to the plate to help out as the book says to do.  The 2nd baseman's throw is wild at 3rd, gets away from the 3rd baseman and the B/R now heads home where there is going to be a play at the plate.  You are now either standing at home plate ready to handle the play or standing out in RF looking like a polished turd.  Think about the amount of instant credibility you'd get from the coaches who've never seen you before by standing at home plate making a huge out/safe call vs. letting your partner run around the entire infield while you stood out in RF having only taken 5-6 steps.

 

I can tell you what I'd do if I were the base umpire.  AND I can tell you what I'd do if I were the plate umpire and my partner went out on me and didn't come back in to help...in Game 2 of the DH I'd go out on everything that wasn't hit on the ground in the outfield (and I might go out on 2 of those just for spite.)

[JaxRolo]

MidAmUmp - You make some good points on your post. Our HS Association teaches to stay out so we stay out. But if I work with a veteran that says come back and help I will.

 

And you are correct we worry about little things. Like if the stripes of one brand shirt are 1/16 of an inch wider. Or I am wearing poly-wools but he is not, or the tucked in Jackets (I believe it is stupid to tuck in a Jacket), etc

 

Lets get on the field and Umpire!!!!!

[BRUMP]

Here's my $0.02 worth on this...and if I piss you off, sorry in advance

 

There have been some incredible discussions on here about important umpiring topics such as: Jacket tucking/not tucking, Plate coat or jacket on the plate (tucked or untucked), Buying a 5 gal. bucket and purchasing everything known to man minus a flush toilet to carry around with you so you are prepared for every unexpected event that could possibly happen to an umpire including a male umpire starting his menstrual cycle, and Listing each and every chest protector and face mask worn by each MLB umpire.  None of this crap amounts to a hill of beans in the umpiring world.   Show up on time, look the part, bust your ass and get your calls right!

umpires are perfectionists by nature we want to get every call, mechanic, and rotation right (well most of us do). although they are unimportant in the long run and no coach/player gives a s*** whether our jacket is tucked or not, most umpires want to be in the "100% proper" uniform

[MidAmUmp]

Here's my $0.02 worth on this...and if I piss you off, sorry in advance

 

There have been some incredible discussions on here about important umpiring topics such as: Jacket tucking/not tucking, Plate coat or jacket on the plate (tucked or untucked), Buying a 5 gal. bucket and purchasing everything known to man minus a flush toilet to carry around with you so you are prepared for every unexpected event that could possibly happen to an umpire including a male umpire starting his menstrual cycle, and Listing each and every chest protector and face mask worn by each MLB umpire.  None of this crap amounts to a hill of beans in the umpiring world.   Show up on time, look the part, bust your ass and get your calls right!

umpires are perfectionists by nature we want to get every call, mechanic, and rotation right (well most of us do). although they are unimportant in the long run and no coach/player gives a s*** whether our jacket is tucked or not, most umpires want to be in the "100% proper" uniform

 

But that's the point...The 100% proper uniform where you live isn't the 100% proper uniform where I live.  Wear and dress the way the veterans in your area expect you to dress.  There's no need to have a 6 page argument over tucking/not tucking.  In my area of Missouri we don't tuck our jackets unless you only have the plate jacket.  However, when I've been on the road with guys from other areas and they tuck, so I tuck with them.  Do what the veterans do in your area and get your calls right.  A long time ago (and the post may not still be around) someone posted a photo of a college umpire wearing a short sleeved jersey with long sleeved UA underneath.  Several people blasted the umpire because of how bad it looked.  But you know what?  The guy in the photo has worked the CWS at least 3 times.  Was it my preferred look behind the plate? No.  But, I couldn't cary his jock.  Who knows why he did that, maybe it turned cold at the last minute and that's all he had.  We don't know, but I'll bet he busted his ass on every play, was in position and got virtually every call right that night.  And I'll bet if you had asked both coaches after the game neither noticed that was what he was wearing.  And I'll also bet if an NCAA supervisor was at the game they didn't notice or care either.

 

I just think some people make this much harder than it is.  I see too many mechanical robots running around with scowls on their faces thinking they are large and in charge.  Loosen up and have some fun.  As Mr. Evans says, "Umpiring is the most fun you can have with your clothes on."  I'll get off my soap box now.

[JaxRolo]

Here's my $0.02 worth on this...and if I piss you off, sorry in advance

 

There have been some incredible discussions on here about important umpiring topics such as: Jacket tucking/not tucking, Plate coat or jacket on the plate (tucked or untucked), Buying a 5 gal. bucket and purchasing everything known to man minus a flush toilet to carry around with you so you are prepared for every unexpected event that could possibly happen to an umpire including a male umpire starting his menstrual cycle, and Listing each and every chest protector and face mask worn by each MLB umpire.  None of this crap amounts to a hill of beans in the umpiring world.   Show up on time, look the part, bust your ass and get your calls right!

umpires are perfectionists by nature we want to get every call, mechanic, and rotation right (well most of us do). although they are unimportant in the long run and no coach/player gives a s*** whether our jacket is tucked or not, most umpires want to be in the "100% proper" uniform

 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Can you show me the manual that says a tucked in jacket is the proper uniform? Or the stripes on your shirt are supposed to be exactly 3/16 of an inch wide?

[BRUMP]

 

Here's my $0.02 worth on this...and if I piss you off, sorry in advance

 

There have been some incredible discussions on here about important umpiring topics such as: Jacket tucking/not tucking, Plate coat or jacket on the plate (tucked or untucked), Buying a 5 gal. bucket and purchasing everything known to man minus a flush toilet to carry around with you so you are prepared for every unexpected event that could possibly happen to an umpire including a male umpire starting his menstrual cycle, and Listing each and every chest protector and face mask worn by each MLB umpire.  None of this crap amounts to a hill of beans in the umpiring world.   Show up on time, look the part, bust your ass and get your calls right!

umpires are perfectionists by nature we want to get every call, mechanic, and rotation right (well most of us do). although they are unimportant in the long run and no coach/player gives a s*** whether our jacket is tucked or not, most umpires want to be in the "100% proper" uniform

 

But that's the point...The 100% proper uniform where you live isn't the 100% proper uniform where I live.  Wear and dress the way the veterans in your area expect you to dress.  There's no need to have a 6 page argument over tucking/not tucking.  In my area of Missouri we don't tuck our jackets unless you only have the plate jacket.  However, when I've been on the road with guys from other areas and they tuck, so I tuck with them.  Do what the veterans do in your area and get your calls right.  A long time ago (and the post may not still be around) someone posted a photo of a college umpire wearing a short sleeved jersey with long sleeved UA underneath.  Several people blasted the umpire because of how bad it looked.  But you know what?  The guy in the photo has worked the CWS at least 3 times.  Was it my preferred look behind the plate? No.  But, I couldn't cary his jock.  Who knows why he did that, maybe it turned cold at the last minute and that's all he had.  We don't know, but I'll bet he busted his ass on every play, was in position and got virtually every call right that night.  And I'll bet if you had asked both coaches after the game neither noticed that was what he was wearing.  And I'll also bet if an NCAA supervisor was at the game they didn't notice or care either.

 

I just think some people make this much harder than it is.  I see too many mechanical robots running around with scowls on their faces thinking they are large and in charge.  Loosen up and have some fun.  As Mr. Evans says, "Umpiring is the most fun you can have with your clothes on."  I'll get off my soap box now.

 

 

 

completely agree     because the standards vary it leads to these debates...if everything was unifrom there would be black and white right and wrong

 

the debates are still fun though

[yawetag]

We have seen several post what the PBUC Red Book and the Evans book says (although I don't know why you'd reference either one since they are for professional baseball and as far as I know none of you work professional baseball), but those along with the CCA and as far as I know the NFHS say to cover home instead of standing out in RF giving yourself a rectal exam.

 

 

Some assocations, including ones in Missouri, take the FED Umpire Manual and throw it in the trash. My association uses the PBUC book because we're assigned two-man games at all levels and having one set of standards is easier than trying to remember what mechanic book you're supposed to use for that game. And I'm willing to bet the differences CCA has for two-man mechanics is not too far off from PBUC's.

[Jocko]

When in Rome, wear a cream shirt, navy ball bags, and hat backward! :D

[jmpnjmy]

Come on Jocko. What about a zippered shirt?

[Jocko]

Come on Jocko. What about a zippered shirt?

________________________________________________________________

Oops! Forgot that one. Cream zippered shirt (unzipped) with a green undershirt

[semper_fi_72]

NFHS, PBUC, JE Max 2 umpire.

All have a few differant ways of doing things.

The BIG thing that really makes a differnce in Umpiring a game is:

 

Pregame with your partner and ensure your on the same PAGE regarless of what book your using or not using.

 

Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

[Jocko]

NFHS, PBUC, JE Max 2 umpire.All have a few differant ways of doing things.The BIG thing that really makes a differnce in Umpiring a game is: Pregame with your partner and ensure your on the same PAGE regarless of what book your using or not using. Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

^ ^ ^ THIS!!! ^ ^ ^