Assistant coach leaves box / dugout

[mstaylor]

Not in HS.

Don't let the Asst. Coach come out of the box to discuss ANYTHING. You're going to have to turn around and then discuss it with the head coach, anyway.

I agree with not having two discussions but it depends on the teams what I allow. There is a couple of teams where the asst knows more than the manager and I will talk to them because I know the manager will stay put if I do. If I don't then I have a discussion with the manager that takes twice as long because of lack of knowledge base.

[Jasper_C]

My interpertation is as soon as the AC comes out, I don't get into a discussion I just tell him he is restricted and then go to the HC and if he wants to discuss it I will discuss it with him as I walk him towards his dugout and inform him because his AC is a knucklehead he has to watch from the bench.

When this rule came in 3 years ago my first game had a scorekeeper/AC comeout to argue a banger at the plate. I just told him he was restricted andthe HC(also 3BC) just nodded as he walked to the dugout when I said he was restricted too. We had a new 3BC for the rest of the game.

The AC only "pays" for the conversatation if he is getting dumped, if he is going to watch the rest of the game he better realize his mistake and not compound it.

Jasper

[Minnz]

My interpertation is as soon as the AC comes out, I don't get into a discussion I just tell him he is restricted and then go to the HC and if he wants to discuss it I will discuss it with him as I walk him towards his dugout and inform him because his AC is a knucklehead he has to watch from the bench.

Why do you restrict so fast? I have always let them have a few words and warm then to stop if not the HC before restricting or dumping. Just wondering...

[mstaylor]

I have never restricted a coach for leaving his box or dugout. I have tossed but he get a warning. I throw my hand up and tell him to return. If he doesn't then he goes. I have never even considered restricting.

[jjskitours]

I raised this issue out of curiosity. I must say I'm a bit taken back by how many of my fellow umpires are so quick to dismiss an asst coach and by rule the head coach too. The rule as put in several years ago clearly states that an asst coach cannot leave his box or the dugout to argue or question a "judgement" call. I can find NO basis for restricting or ejecting an asst who comes out to question a "rule" application / interpretation. Let's be reasonable and not pull the trigger too quickly. By now I would hope most coaches know the deal, so that if an asst approaches me, I'm going to initially assume it's not to question a judgement call.

[NFUA_44]

I believe the whole reason NFHS tied the HC and AC together in the punishment was to make sure that the person who is responsible for the team is the one getting the explanation. If the AC is reasonable in asking a question that can be quickly answered, answer it. If it requires anything like an explanation of a rule politely tell him to head back and send the HC on out so you can properly explain things to the man in charge. This also keeps you out of the dilemma of starting out answering a simple question that evolves into a discussion of your judgment on the play.

Bottom line, the HC is the one responsible for the team, not the AC, the pitching coach, or anybody else. At any level of HS and above he should be the one conducting business. If you are gonna let them come out keep it short and simple. Personally I don't look to just restrict them out of the box, your just looking for trouble there, but I'm not gonna let them come out unless there is NO question they are looking for clarity on a rule. I honestly don't see where this would be that much of an issue, at least around these parts. I mean most Varsity coaches know their responsibility and are aware of the rule, they don't let their AC run around and cause trouble. Far as I'm concerned if the behavior is enough to restrict him, it's enough to dump him, why take it out further on a HC, if it's all that bad he will get himself run too!

[spiritump]

I raised this issue out of curiosity. I must say I'm a bit taken back by how many of my fellow umpires are so quick to dismiss an asst coach and by rule the head coach too. The rule as put in several years ago clearly states that an asst coach cannot leave his box or the dugout to argue or question a "judgement" call. I can find NO basis for restricting or ejecting an asst who comes out to question a "rule" application / interpretation. Let's be reasonable and not pull the trigger too quickly. By now I would hope most coaches know the deal, so that if an asst approaches me, I'm going to initially assume it's not to question a judgement call.

you can not win with an asst coach--he has no power so why deal with him, he is not asking you because he thinks you are right you can not win so why go down that road--remember thay are all rats ,,some just asst rats

[mstaylor]

spiritump, I can absolutely win with an asst. If he stays where he is and asks a question I will either answer a reasonable question or just ignore him. If he leaves his coaching box or dugout I can hold my hand up and remind him he is going to get restricted if he keeps up. Again a reasonable question usually gets an answer. I am not going to have a protracted discussion in most cases, if I choose to talk to him, the manager gets nothing. If the manager wants a second conversation I will simply tell him to ask his coach, he already got my explanation.

I will not dismiss a coach simply because he is a coach. I know the staffs in my area and know who to engage and who not to shut down. If I was doing a game where I was unfamiliar with the staffs, I would be more circumspect.

[SAB_UIC_TX]

Common sense, enforce every rule but use common sense. Last season had this happen; bases loaded grounder to left of pitcher. He fields and comes home have runner advancing from third by ten feet, f2 is now going to first for double play, runner slides out and interferes causing throw to go into right field. My partner calls interference two outs. HC comes down from third and a big controlled discussion begins, other HC comes out and stands some distance away after attending to his injured catcher. AC coach comes down from his box at first, asks one question during the discussion which lasts several minutes.

By rule I should have restricted him, but the situation didn't call for and and by restricting him and in turn the HC it would have made the situation worse and there most likely would have been ejections. I told him about the potentilal for being restricted before their next at bat to which he commented he had totally forgotten about that. My partner and I discussed at length post game and feel we handled in the right manner as did several fellow umpires in our chapter. You must employ common sense in situations like that. Always be the one with the cooler more clear thinking.

[mstaylor]

Game management is a game by game, situation by situation and umpire by umpire solution. There is no right or wrong in general, there are things we teach not to do but the rest is a feel thing. I don't fully understand your sitch but shouldn't the BU rodeo the asst off. Not create a scene but answer whatever is needed and send him back from whence he came. If you guys decide to answer and not restrict, fine, but I would still think allowing two on one is a bad idea.

[Jocko]

Again, ass coaches can properly and politely ask for a pulled foot/swipe tag appeal. They can request time for player conference or to check on an injury. Aside from these few things, I'm deaf and they better be mute.

[mstaylor]

Again, ass coaches can properly and politely ask for a pulled foot/swipe tag appeal. They can request time for player conference or to check on an injury. Aside from these few things, I'm deaf and they better be mute.

I prefer not to operate in absolutes. While I agree assts need to be kept under control, I don't dismiss them completely. Even before the rules I would limit their inclusion, but I did talk to them I won't talk to the manager. I tell him to talk to the asst, he already got the explanation. On the other hand if they both start at the same time, I shut the asst down and talk to the manager. I have never allowed two on one or explain to both coach and manager.

[JaxRolo]

Had a a$$ coach this weekend when me and my partner called a balk at the same on his pitcher. He went nuts! He said it wasn't a balk. Bla bla bla.

He settled down but between innings my partner went to the fence to get a drink and I see the a$$ get up from the bucket and start approaching my partner. I walk within earshot and heard him say "I'm not one to get thrown out of a game but" That's where my partner interrupted him and ejected him. My partner said "no need to go on. If you want to be ejected you can go now!" he left the field but went and sat in the stands. Director saw it and removed him to the parking lot.

Turns out his son was the pitcher.

[Jocko]

I'm not one to get thrown out of a game but.......

(Insert crow-hop) BOOM!!!

[JaxRolo]

I'm not one to get thrown out of a game but.......

(Insert crow-hop) BOOM!!!

Pretty much what he did!

[mstaylor]

He probably should have been gone on the balk. On the discussion between innings I would have turned on him and said ," Then Don't." Hopefully he would be smart enough to walk away, if not, boom.

[alex7]

ms

I appreciate your explanations. I find your answers to be reasonable, polite, and firm when dealing with coaches (be it HC or AC) - pretty much what I hear every college and MiLB umpire stress.

[mstaylor]

ms

I appreciate your explanations. I find your answers to be reasonable, polite, and firm when dealing with coaches (be it HC or AC) - pretty much what I hear every college and MiLB umpire stress.

Thanks, I try to be reasonable with dealing with coaching staffs, but I am not going to take a bunch of crap either. In my younger days I did have a much quicker trigger and earned the nickname, Dr. Hook. Now guys know that when I say, that's enough or I show a stop sign, they back off. If they don't, bye.

[Jocko]

We have a Cpt. Hook in our group (no, a$$holes. It's not me)

[mstaylor]

I had a year where I threw everybody in sight, coaches,managers, players, any level. From youth ball to college to adult ball, I had over twenty or twenty-five ejections. The problem was the majority was me dumping guys my partner should have and didn't. I ended up in a secondary argument or had extra conversation about my partner where I ended up dumping somebody. I even dumped a F9 in college on senior day. These days I have one or two a season.

[NFUA_44]

I had a year where I threw everybody in sight, coaches,managers, players, any level. From youth ball to college to adult ball, I had over twenty or twenty-five ejections. The problem was the majority was me dumping guys my partner should have and didn't. I ended up in a secondary argument or had extra conversation about my partner where I ended up dumping somebody. I even dumped a F9 in college on senior day. These days I have one or two a season.

This has always been my experience in a givem region. You may have to go in and Carpet bomb one year, but things will settle out to a reasonable level once they know what is going to be expected on the field. You still may have to cover a partner who turtles up like France but that even starts to level off in time. I don't even look at it as a "quick" trigger as much as a shorter fuse. I always try to give them a way out with exceptions of course. Reasonable behavior will generally get you a reasonable response.

EDIT: fixed sentence and added to post

[Dannytheman]

As I used to travel around leagues there were always ones that were playing a stupid game of hardball with the umps. I tossed heavy on these until they learned.

I went from a$$hole to "don't screw with him" in one year. I made it better for others who followed. :shrug:

[Jocko]

As I used to travel around leagues there were always ones that were playing a stupid game of hardball with the umps. I tossed heavy on these until they learned.

I went from a$$hole to "don't screw with him" in one year. I made it better for others who followed.

you're such a hardass! (Where's the scared emoticon?)

[Dannytheman]

As I used to travel around leagues there were always ones that were playing a stupid game of hardball with the umps. I tossed heavy on these until they learned.

I went from a$$hole to "don't screw with him" in one year. I made it better for others who followed.

you're such a hardass! (Where's the scared emoticon?)

The fear me like crazy at Little League now!! ROARRRRRrrrrrrrrr

[hckyosgood30]

Mommy mommy, that's the mean umpire who threw daddy out of the game for not getting him a hot dog! lol Eject when needed and don't regret a second of it. I will talk a manager down first, and answer a reasonable question that is asked of me. If an AC comes out of his box I'll ask him if this is something that the manager should be asking. At that point they get it, if not then they are on thin ice. Just remember its never fast if it's necessary. Usually a cordial but firm statement or a "That's enough" will get it through the thickest of skulls.