What is the problem with softball?

[LMSANS]

I have noticed on this and other forums that baseball umpires look down on the sport of softball, in general, and softball umpires specifically. It is not uncommon in my area for the certified umpires to work both sports for high school. I work both sports for high school and rec/tournament play.

Can someone give me an intelligent (high hopes) reason that this is so? It's just another sport. Baseball is, and always will be, my first love. But I see no problem with softball as a sport as a fan or as an official.

I am not easily offended but it does bother me when otherwise rational individuals put down softball umpires as something less than baseball umpires. The sports are very similar, yet have some major differences.

[Kyle_Stevens]

I am not sure if I qualify for the intelligent part; however, I can give you my theory/opinion.

I would say 75% of the guys around here umpire both baseball and softball and if it came down to it they would take a softball game any day of the week. An hour and fifteen minutes later you are walking away with the same amount of money that the guy across the street umpiring the baseball game that is in the top of the second with the home team down 12-8.

I have tossed around the idea of softball. I have been to watch a few games at the Softball Hall of Fame in OKC. To be completely honest, I do not like some of the mechanics. I know, terrible excuse. The two I have issues with are strike calls and brushing off bases and the pitchers plate between innings. IMO, there is little room personal style.

I am not saying any of this is valid but this is just my opinion. Do I look down on softball? Of course not. I just haven't found the motivation to do it yet.

[LMSANS]

I am not sure if I qualify for the intelligent part; however, I can give you my theory/opinion.

I would say 75% of the guys around here umpire both baseball and softball and if it came down to it they would take a softball game any day of the week. An hour and fifteen minutes later you are walking away with the same amount of money that the guy across the street umpiring the baseball game that is in the top of the second with the home team down 12-8.

I have tossed around the idea of softball. I have been to watch a few games at the Softball Hall of Fame in OKC. To be completely honest, I do not like some of the mechanics. I know, terrible excuse. The two I have issues with are strike calls and brushing off bases and the pitchers plate between innings. IMO, there is little room personal style.

I am not saying any of this is valid but this is just my opinion. Do I look down on softball? Of course not. I just haven't found the motivation to do it yet.

To me that is an intelligent reason to not work softball, which is a reasonable opinion. No offense, but it doesn't answer my question.

But you do bring up a good point. I too, dislike the brushing off bases and pitchers plate. As a good umpire, I do it. It sometimes does help with the calling of illegal pitches and leaving the base early. But it is one of the differences.

Another side note, 9 out of 10 pitchers thank me after cleaning the pitchers plate. It's just a very different attitude. Yes, I do almost all girls fast pitch.

[Umpire in Chief]

I'll follow in Kyle's footsteps giving my answer, hoping that my answer isn't too bad.

First, for me I have far less interest in softball, though it does seem like easy money.

Second, I cannot stand the constant cheering, chanting the girls do. A park I work has the Pony/Colt Baseball & Softball fields next to each other and from my field hearing that chanting for a few hours gives me a headache. Now over my three games the SB guys have had 2 crews come in and are on their 4th or 5th game, But for the chants/ cheers they do would kill me. At first I thought it was cool and cute, now its just annoying.

While I don't fall into this category, I know there are baseball guys who think it is less manly to call softball versus baseball. Not an intelligent answer.

Around here a lot of the recreational SB is done single man, and I'm not sure I'd want to work solo.

Where I think SB guys have it better are the lengths of the games, and the attitudes. Then again I think of when I played church league and may take back the attitude comment.

I wouldn't say I look down on it because it is it's own game and probably just as challenging to master and rise up the ranks as baseball, but there's so much baseball around here I don't think I could squeeze in any SB if I wanted to.

[mstaylor]

I can only answer for my area. In my area the FP guys, on the whole, are awful. Mechanics, uniforms and attitudes are all sub-par at best. Our HS group used to be together with softball and they complained about ANY change in uniforms because it meant they had to buy something. We seperated about eight years ago so we could continue to grow.

I also don't like the mechanics of cleaning bases and the straight up strike call. As Warren pointed out, I don't like the chanting. I think it is too hard to hammer or point in baseball, then do a straight up strike for a strike or an out. The other thing I have seen on TV is PUs seem to get too low to see the outside corner. That may have something to do with the pitch rising but I don't know enough about it.

The first paragraph is my objection for my area only and in no means do I mean it translates to other areas. The second part is my objection to softball as a whole.

I also want to say that I TD many, many softball tournaments and enjoy watching softball. I don't think I care to officiate it.

[theedeuce]

I'm not aware of any problems with softball umpires. What I'm reading from other posts is that (for the most part) softball umpires have it much easier than baseball umpires. The game is the same in nature but the mechanics are far different. It's self evident; baseball games offer much more skill and awareness as opposed to softball... Bottom Line...

What I'm taking out of these discussions are more contrast and comparison rather than problems. I have many friends that would rather call softball games first before they commit to my scheduled baseball games. I joke with them alot claiming they are "getting paid by the outs"... Baseball umpires require more detail to the game as opposed to softball umpires... "You get what you give"

I have no problems with softball umpires...

[MCLEOD36]

Wait, here is my answer, Jennie Finch and Kat Osterman...... I think I wanna change to Softball, where I dont get clobbered by the rock on my arms and head.....

I think those umpires in college and pro, can be excellent, but most of the softball umpires I know are used to beer leagues and HS Leagues and they just arent very good.

[Majordave]

Maybe not intelligent and many of my reasons have been listed.

#1-chanting-it drives me crazy

#2-girls play it and they whine and they have whining parents and have whining coaches. (at least around here)

#3-our local softball umpires are slobs, all of them. I even saw one so fat he could not tuck in his 5XL shirt and did not/could not move at all.

#4-I went to NCAA baseball clinic in Atlanta last year. NCAA softball umpire clinic was next door at Hilton. I went out to eat and all of these slovenly dressed, fat, sloppy drunk, loud MF'rs were telling rude/dirty jokes and committing PDM all over the restaurant and bar. (PDM=Public Display of Mechanics). Not as bad as our local HS guys but close.

#5-I never played fastpitch and don' t really want to learn how to ump it and its nuances and rules.

I am a little jealous of the money per hour they get versus baseball but I just LOVE baseball and there is no room in my life for any other sport in the same season.

I hope I did not hurt anybody's feelings. Just my opinion based upon things as I see them here in Kentucky.

[theedeuce]

Major Dave... Your first three (3) points hit it on the head... LOL... Same way it is here in Georgia. As big as softball is around my parts one would think the softball umpires would take a little more pride in there work. Now there are a few that hustle around and are game conscious. Funny thing is every year the local softball leagues around here would belly ache about the umpires and every year they put up with same apathy.

Like I said before; "You get what you give".

[LMSANS]

Chanting - You have obviously never worked Toms River (LL world champs 7 or 8 years ago, I think). Most opponents fans hate playing them because of the chanting through the varsity level - baseball that is. I dislike the chanting also, even from the girls.

Whining - I can't recall that I have ever heard much, if any, whining in softball. However, 13u baseball is vintage stuff.

The first time I went to my local ASA meeting, I though "what did I get myself into?". It was like a freak show. But there is new leadership, a former AA Umpire that went through JEA a few years back is turning it around. Thankfully most of the ASA games are solo efforts.

You have to love the attitude. One of my first hs games was a freshmen contest. The visitors were finishing up their I/O when F7 points to the sky and yells to the coach "Hey Diane, look at the rainbow". Never heard that at a baseball game.

[jjb]

This summer , I got to work a Coed A (we call it the Pitch and Giggle League) SP game. One of the Teams were from the local Hooters.

Think that was nice? 2nd inning.......it rained for about 10 minutes, and we played through it.......

and I got paid for it. Now, tell me how much better baseball is.....

[catoblue]

This summer , I got to work a Coed A (we call it the Pitch and Giggle League) SP game. One of the Teams were from the local Hooters.

Think that was nice? 2nd inning.......it rained for about 10 minutes, and we played through it.......

and I got paid for it. Now, tell me how much better baseball is.....

ROFLMAO!!

Now that right there is FUNNY - I don't care who you are!!!

Back to the OP...

I don't do softaball games simply because I know enough that I know there are differences in rule sets, but not enough to know what all the differences are and how to enforce them.

I turned down district tourney games for LL Majors SB two years in a row now because I know I wouldn't be right for it (heck, I've never even held the LL SB rules book in my hands!) Maybe once hang up my coaching hat for good, I'll think about it.

Oh yeah, having umped a BB game on the field next to a SB game, those chants really are just about enough to make you go postal!

[InDaZone]

This summer , I got to work a Coed A (we call it the Pitch and Giggle League) SP game. One of the Teams were from the local Hooters.

Think that was nice? 2nd inning.......it rained for about 10 minutes, and we played through it.......

and I got paid for it. Now, tell me how much better baseball is.....

Never had much interest in umpiring SB.

Until now.

what's the slogan...."Delightfully Tacky....."( o Y o )

idz

[mstaylor]

I really enjoy watching Men's FP. We do a men's national at our local complex every summer. This past year we had a shortage of umpires that were willing to do men. The UIC asked me to fill in for a couple of games. I agreed under duress, my objection being I had never worked softball in my life and a national was a bad spot to learn. It turned out a team said they were going to drop out so I was relieved of duty. The next day they and me were both back in. Then they were out and so was I. I kidded the UIC that I was the most fired umpire in the tournament.

The really funny thing was I ended up fielding an umpire complaint. A player comes up saying the TD and I needed to come watch this horrible umpire. I asked what the problem was. He said that the BU had blown a banger at first and they complained about it. Then he said the BU wouldn't give the SS time after the ball came back into the infield. He complained enough he got tossed. I asked him if I had his complaint correct? He was complaining the umpire got a banger wrong. I explained we would never have a discussion on a judgment call, particularly one that even he felt was close. On the no time call, I asked why was he trying to get time and he said so the SS could throw the ball back to the pitcher. I said so you want the umpire to be an extra defensive player? His look was priceless. I told him to throw the ball back and he might get a shot at getting time.

So he then said he figured he was wasting his time. That would be correct. I explained everything he complained about was precisely what the BU is supposed to be doing. He wasn't happy.

[Majordave]

A player comes up saying the TD and I needed to come watch this horrible umpire. I asked what the problem was. He said that the BU had blown a banger at first and they complained about it. Then he said the BU wouldn't give the SS time after the ball came back into the infield. He complained enough he got tossed. I asked him if I had his complaint correct? He was complaining the umpire got a banger wrong. I explained we would never have a discussion on a judgment call, particularly one that even he felt was close. On the no time call, I asked why was he trying to get time and he said so the SS could throw the ball back to the pitcher. I said so you want the umpire to be an extra defensive player? His look was priceless. I told him to throw the ball back and he might get a shot at getting time.

Again, if this isn't whining I don't know what it is. I have not had anything like this at a baseball game above Little League All Star District Tournament. When I had it last summer (parents mostly) I walked over to the dugout area near where the whining was occuring and told the coach in a voice loud enough for the whiners to hear, "I don't know who it is yet but if I hear anymore arguing judgment calls or whining about balls and strikes somebody is leaving from this dugout or its fans area." The BS stopped until after the game was over, the whiners lost and they began wailing like somebody at the Jerusalem Wailing Wall about every call in the game. Never mind the fact that their catcher and outfielders could not catch and no one could hit on that team. They were one of those teams with a two game limit per tournament-thank you, come again.

As Assistant AD at our school I sometimes have to attend whatever sport's game/meet is occuring whenever I am not umpiring myself. Softball has an unbelievable amount of whining around here by players and parents and sometimes coaches. I could not put up with it and I would have to eject a significant number of players and coaches to the point that I am afraid it would affect my ratings and ability to work games. The softball umpires around here allow it. Of course, some of those guys don't look like they are even there in any sense of mind and spirit. I can tell it is only a check to them. I hear softball does that to you. Judging from some of the unbelievable specimens I have seen working softball here, I tend to agree.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Majordave
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[BlueInVA]

I think those umpires in college and pro, can be excellent, but most of the softball umpires I know are used to beer leagues and HS Leagues and they just arent very good.

Most of the softball umpires I that I know are primarily umpiring fast pitch. A few of them do both slow and fast pitch but more and more of them are converting to fast pitch only.:smachhead:

[umpire148]

Well....well....well......

I never thought that there are many that dislike the softball.

For me...in Malaysia, playing fastpitch softball.....i say it again...FASTPITCH SOFTBALL are an important game when come its season..

[Ump Rube]

From what I have heard and seen from the umpires in my area (and again mind you these are not my thoughts) they regard softball in 2 ways.

1. Girls' baseball (complete with a girls sized field and ball)

2. A reason to and not a real game (this is more for the SP-SB in the area)

To some softball will always be the little cousin to baseball.

[dawg-man]

I umpire alot of baseball and it is my favorite but when I have umpired high school girls fastpitch it seems like the girls enjoy it more and have less attitudes. The chanting can sometimes wear a little thin but the girls have a great time and they hustle every where they go.

[Penguin]

:clap: I guess I'm lucky where I am at. We don't have the "cheering/chanting" in SB anymore or less than in BB. Actually don't have any "fat slobs" in either sport. As far as mechanics, in WI they are telling us they want the hammer strike in both sports.

:ranton:Brushing the plates between innings - good God ..... get over it or yourself already or don't do the sport. But why bash it becuase you personally have a problem with a mechanic. Bottom line - if you want to be a good ump you'll work at it and will be ....... if you don't want to - you won't. If you personally don't like the mechanics - don't go there but stop putting others down.

Let's be honest - there are "fat slobs" (not my term) in every sport at every level. Plenty of guys in pro sports that are not in the best of shape and have horseSH*# mechanics. There are also plenty of officials/umps who have nothing better to talk about than slamming other officials/umps/sports. That certainly does NOT make them knowledgeable or good officials/umps.

I've got pet peeves too, but do the job I am required to do. I figure it's like life - if I want to live - I've got to put up with both the good and the bad cause the alternative stinks!

[bassfam11]

My first post here so if I come off badly please cut me a little slack. As an umpire I aspire to the highest level that exists. That is pro baseball, no ifs ands or buts, any thing less than highest level you (me) can attain is selling yourself short. Small field? No thank you, I do softball all the time, not because I love it, but because it needs to be done. I don’t understand how those here who want to be all they can be, choose softball! I will never attain Pro status but I can do better than softball!

[therefump]

Chanting - You have obviously never worked Toms River (LL world champs 7 or 8 years ago, I think). Most opponents fans hate playing them because of the chanting through the varsity level - baseball that is. I dislike the chanting also, even from the girls.

Whining - I can't recall that I have ever heard much, if any, whining in softball. However, 13u baseball is vintage stuff.

The first time I went to my local ASA meeting, I though "what did I get myself into?". It was like a freak show. But there is new leadership, a former AA Umpire that went through JEA a few years back is turning it around. Thankfully most of the ASA games are solo efforts.

You have to love the attitude. One of my first hs games was a freshmen contest. The visitors were finishing up their I/O when F7 points to the sky and yells to the coach "Hey Diane, look at the rainbow". Never heard that at a baseball game.

Hey Larry,

Excellent question. I guess I've thumbed my nose at it because I grew up on baseball. I played SB in beer leagues and that further tainted my image of SB.

Last week as we're getting ready to do the HS game the SB umpire was getting ready as well. Don't you know, the stereo type applied:

a) FAT

B) Waited for the golf cart (AD's personal cart) to go about 100 yds.

Only good comeback as we were harassing him was that he claims "I've got bigger balls".

The chanting and screaming gets to me. Reminds me of my ex-wife.

However, I'd give it a shot to see what it's all about. Baseball is my first love, however.:angel4:

[LMSANS]

Baseball is my first love also. When I was a cadet, it costs an additional $20 to get certified for softball ($90 for one, $110 for both). So,

turns out you get the same money for spending less time on the field. It is a different game, but can be just as competitive as baseball. Pitching is much more dominant and there is a much smaller talent pool. Typically, anything less than Varsity is a painful (mentally and physically) experience. But the girls are great.

In softball, you wipe off the pitchers plate between innings so you can see it (no mound) to call illegal pitches. Every time I'm doing that when the pitcher comes out, I hear a cheerful "Thank you."

That's a rare couple of words around a baseball field.:HD:

[Stan W.]

My first post here so if I come off badly please cut me a little slack. As an umpire I aspire to the highest level that exists. That is pro baseball, no ifs ands or buts, any thing less than highest level you (me) can attain is selling yourself short. Small field? No thank you, I do softball all the time, not because I love it, but because it needs to be done. I don’t understand how those here who want to be all they can be, choose softball! I will never attain Pro status but I can do better than softball!

I'll definately cut you some slack.......but I am also going to take you to task on a couple of points....

I admire your goal to get to pro baseball....when you understand that only 68 umpires in the world get to be MLB umpires, that is quite a lofty goal indeed...

Yet your assumption that doing aything less than the highest level of a sport is selling yourself short is way off the mark... Many of us here have done much higher levels of baseball and softball, yet consistently do the lower levels of the sport for many valid reasons...

This site has former pros, current College, HS and rec league umpires....most of which are husbands, fathers, Soldiers and valued employees of companies that have needs and demands on their time, yet they find time to rise to high levels of excellence as represented by the number of appearances in NCAA/ NAIA Tournament berths, HS Championship games, Youth World Series games...ect..

By using your guidance, they have sold themselves short.........and that I wont ever agree with that...

[bassfam11]

Stan,

I said "I will never attain pro". I am 45 and married with three kids, my life has been over for a long time.

I too still enjoy doing all levels of ball, softball included. Some of the most rewarding experiences can found with the youngest players.

But from a pure umpiring point of view, to be the best you can be, you need to do the best ball you can.