2010 Post season already

[Umpire in Chief]

Okay so I get on the site early this morning and have over 200 news feeds waiting for me. Among everything I have going on I actually only watched a few minutes of the Braves Giants game. Apparently I missed alot yesterday.

My thoughts on Maddon's ejection. I didn't see it live but I've watched the replay quite a few times. IMO the batter didn't go, which is what Wolf called. Tampa appealed and the initial call was upheld. What happens from there has no relevence to umpiring. I see no reason to be up in arms about the check swing.

Gardenhire's ejection. My feelings on the strike zone box are well known so I won't rehash that. But looking at the video and where it appeared to cross given the angle of the camera and everything else the pitch in questuion was a close pitch and could have gone either way. Even the pitch tracker showed it was at least close. The media and bloggers are making it sound like it was a cock shot. It wasn't. If it were I'd be writing differently. It was a close pitch nothing to get bent out of shape on. What makes irritated is what Gardenhire said in a press conference after the game where he said he was going to make sure Wendelstedt knew he thought it was a strike when he went out to the mound. This tells me he went out there with every intention to get tossed, but now the umpire is the bad guy. That makes a lot of sense.

People are trying to stir up controversary where they can.

[AllanA]

Well imo I thought Michael Young checked his swing. Ok well get over it and throw a pitch he can't hit. The game is on the players not the umpires! A couple of borderline calls in a 9 inning game should not determine or influence the outcome. Thats horse poop. The players need to stop making errors. Hit the ball then the umpire doesn't make a dicision on the pitch.

The pitch that Gadenhire was complaining about was CLOSE. But it looked like it curved around the plate. It looked like the pitch was inside then curved back to the catchers glove. A strike is where the ball crosses the plate not where the catcher catches the ball!

But there again 1 or 2 close calls (out of several hundred calls) shouldn't decide the outcome of the game!

[Guest]

Let's get serious here for a second.

There is NO WAY that Young checked that swing. To suggest otherwise is just asanine.

There is also no way that the 1-2 to Berkman was a ball. I don't need Pitch F/X to tell me that.

And Paul Emmel kicked that call at 2nd in San Francisco last night too, leading to the 1 of the 1-0 win. Note that Bobby Cox is on the record as saying "I cannot see anything from the dugout" about that call in his post game presser.

The moral of the story here is that there were three missed calls that had a significant impact on the outcome of the game. It's playoff baseball. Jerry Meals, Emmel, and HW need to get those right.

Nobody's perfect but right now, the fraternity of umpires is letting down the game. To shrug this off and go "meh, they're only human" is unacceptable. We've shortened the bench here, from 68 in the world to the top 36 of them. Step it up out there fellas. Right now, you need to be superhuman.

Now that said, all that had to happen for this discussion to become irrelevant is for Tampa to sit down Young on the next pitch instead of coughing up the homerun, Minnesota to do the same, and Atlanta to bear down and not allow that run.

But still, get the call right, and we're not in this situation to begin with.

Lost in all this, I feel bad for the 3 guys MLB canned at the end of last season, and replaced them with Marsh and co...they're laughing all the way to the bank right now because clearly the changes the MLB made are working... :wow:

[AllanA]

Let's get serious here for a second.

There is NO WAY that Young checked that swing. To suggest otherwise is just asanine.

There is also no way that the 1-2 to Berkman was a ball. I don't need Pitch F/X to tell me that.

And Paul Emmel kicked that call at 2nd in San Francisco last night too, leading to the 1 of the 1-0 win. Note that Bobby Cox is on the record as saying "I cannot see anything from the dugout" about that call in his post game presser.

The moral of the story here is that there were three missed calls that had a significant impact on the outcome of the game. It's playoff baseball. Jerry Meals, Emmel, and HW need to get those right.

Nobody's perfect but right now, the fraternity of umpires is letting down the game. To shrug this off and go "meh, they're only human" is unacceptable. We've shortened the bench here, from 68 in the world to the top 36 of them. Step it up out there fellas. Right now, you need to be superhuman.

Now that said, all that had to happen for this discussion to become irrelevant is for Tampa to sit down Young on the next pitch instead of coughing up the homerun, Minnesota to do the same, and Atlanta to bear down and not allow that run.

But still, get the call right, and we're not in this situation to begin with.

Lost in all this, I feel bad for the 3 guys MLB canned at the end of last season, and replaced them with Marsh and co...they're laughing all the way to the bank right now because clearly the changes the MLB made are working...

Well thats easy to say after you watch replay after replay. To sit in your chair and evaluate an fellow blues dicision is, well it is what it is. They have to make the calls in real time. From that stand point I try to do the same. Even though I do not have the same agle so I give the benefit of the doubt to them. I try to make a dicision on what I see first. Which is why I agree with both calls in question.

Just remember the catcher is abt 1.5 to 2 feet behind the plate and camaras do give some optical illusions.

Just saying......

Calls were close. could have gone either way. It just didn't go the way you or I wanted. O well thats the beauty of baseball.

You win some and you loose some.

[HokieUmp]

Well thats easy to say after you watch replay after replay. To sit in your chair and evaluate an fellow blues dicision is, well it is what it is. They have to make the calls in real time.

Yes, they do. And I normally fall well over on the side of the MLB guys, because of that. (Not in the "they're up there, and we're down here, so who are we?" form, but certainly giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Having said that: Holy $h!t, but HW screwed the pooch on that 3rd strike. I don't give a crap about where the catcher is, where the FOXtrax sets up, what the announcers say, etc - I saw that with my own eyes, and said "that's a strike at any level." (Disclaimer: some of that might be influenced by the fact I feel the Yankees are the official MLB team of Satan.)

I caught SportsCenter this morning, and saw the game rundown, and saw the mound session that led to the ejection, and knew from what the ESPN guys said that it was a pitch called a ball that led to a batter getting a hit. So I waited for them to show it again. They did, and in real time - no slowdowns or anything. See above: Holy $h!t, that's a strike.

On the "stolen" base by Posey, that was about the only two minutes of that game I watched, by coincidence. From the original play, it seemed like an okay call, but it didn't feel right. By the first replay, I thought - that guy was out. And apparently, the producers in the truck thought so, too - even though the announcer team didn't make a big deal about it - because they must have showed that about six more times from different angles. But since B. Cox didn't fly out of the dugout, I figured it was "close enough."**

For that call, I'd go back to the "Hey, they get one angle, and one shot in real time. I can live with it" stance.

**And by the way, Bobby Cox said "I can't see anything from the dugout"? Really? He couldn't for the other 4,000 games of his career, either, yet that didn't stop him from being a pain in the ass any other time!

[AllanA]

Yes, they do. And I normally fall well over on the side of the MLB guys, because of that. (Not in the "they're up there, and we're down here, so who are we?" form, but certainly giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Having said that: Holy $h!t, but HW screwed the pooch on that 3rd strike. I don't give a crap about where the catcher is, where the FOXtrax sets up, what the announcers say, etc - I saw that with my own eyes, and said "that's a strike at any level." (Disclaimer: some of that might be influenced by the fact I feel the Yankees are the official MLB team of Satan.)

I caught SportsCenter this morning, and saw the game rundown, and saw the mound session that led to the ejection, and knew from what the ESPN guys said that it was a pitch called a ball that led to a batter getting a hit. So I waited for them to show it again. They did, and in real time - no slowdowns or anything. See above: Holy $h!t, that's a strike.

On the "stolen" base by Posey, that was about the only two minutes of that game I watched, by coincidence. From the original play, it seemed like an okay call, but it didn't feel right. By the first replay, I thought - that guy was out. And apparently, the producers in the truck thought so, too - even though the announcer team didn't make a big deal about it - because they must have showed that about six more times from different angles. But since B. Cox didn't fly out of the dugout, I figured it was "close enough."**

For that call, I'd go back to the "Hey, they get one angle, and one shot in real time. I can live with it" stance.

**And by the way, Bobby Cox said "I can't see anything from the dugout"? Really? He couldn't for the other 4,000 games of his career, either, yet that didn't stop him from being a pain in the ass any other time!

Wow, I didn't say anything about them being up there and we are down here.

Man I guess if you are my partner on the bases, and I call a Borderline pitch a ball, you would let me know that the pitch was a strike huh?

Ok well I wouldn't do that. A borderline call can go either way. You say its a strike, ok, I say its a ball. You may have a wider strike zone and I may be tighter. I guess Hunter is just alil tighter than most of the complainers.

So be it.

[Thunderheads]

Guys, ...come on....knock it off, will ya???

ANYONE on this site, that saw that 1-2 pitch to Berkman, ...said "strike" in their head! YOU HAD TO!

Ump_24 and Hokie ...I'm with you.....AT THAT LEVEL you can't miss a pitch like that. That's ALL over the dish, regardless of the camera angles, Foxpitch track crap, whatever .... that was a strike in real time all day long at any level.

Nothing borderline about that pitch guys, ...come on ...let's be real ....

[AllanA]

Guys, ...come on....knock it off, will ya???

ANYONE on this site, that saw that 1-2 pitch to Berkman, ...said "strike" in their head! YOU HAD TO!

Ump_24 and Hokie ...I'm with you.....AT THAT LEVEL you can't miss a pitch like that. That's ALL over the dish, regardless of the camera angles, Foxpitch track crap, whatever .... that was a strike in real time all day long at any level.

Nothing borderline about that pitch guys, ...come on ...let's be real ....

Are you sure? 100% positive a strike....ok. I understand.....I guess I and Hunter are the minority....

Hey I am in good company!!!! IMO hee hee hee

[Thunderheads]

Are you sure? 100% positive a strike....ok. I understand.....I guess I and Hunter are the minority....

Hey I am in good company!!!! IMO hee hee hee

Good stuff Allan! It's all good ....

No one's perfect guys ....no one, and in my post this morning of the video of this incident, I state "I'm just a local small town league house hack" ...I admit it, ...I suck ..... but wow!!

A friend sent me this diagram ....notice HW positioning on the pitch also ..:HS

[Mr Umpire]

Good stuff Allan! It's all good ....

No one's perfect guys ....no one, and in my post this morning of the video of this incident, I state "I'm just a local small town league house hack" ...I admit it, ...I suck ..... but wow!!

A friend sent me this diagram ....notice HW positioning on the pitch also ..

His head position is exactly why he called it "incorrectly". I have to go with what Jax said before. They are not bad/missed calls, they are "incorrect" calls. The call was made with the info he had at hand. From his angle, he was misinformed b/c he was set up incorrectly. It looked more inside than it was is my guess. If he was on the corner, he probably wouldn't have called it "incorrectly".

Young went. I didn't think it to be questionable but not my judgment that counts in that game.

Posey was out but U2's angle is bad on that play. It was a high throw. McCann's fault for the throw and high tag and it was a close play. From U2's angle, I don't think I would have an out either. Now, if U2 was on the C side of the mound, then I think he would possibly have an out. But, he was properly positioned b/c of it being a RH batter. Tough break. Make better throws and the play won't be so close. Plus, the lower the tag, the easier it is to make a call.

Oh, and I don't care if they are in the MLB and I am not. I will evaluate their mechanics and calls the same as I will any other umpire. They are no different except going through the training. But, they are still umpires only they are doing it on TV. Oh yeah, and making more money at it than I am.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Mr Umpire

[AllanA]

Good stuff Allan! It's all good ....

No one's perfect guys ....no one, and in my post this morning of the video of this incident, I state "I'm just a local small town league house hack" ...I admit it, ...I suck ..... but wow!!

A friend sent me this diagram ....notice HW positioning on the pitch also ..

No prob its all good.......A good debate.

[AllanA]

Good stuff Allan! It's all good ....

No one's perfect guys ....no one, and in my post this morning of the video of this incident, I state "I'm just a local small town league house hack" ...I admit it, ...I suck ..... but wow!!

A friend sent me this diagram ....notice HW positioning on the pitch also ..

Man that diagram shows a ball big time. visualize moving right behind the mound and its borderline at best.....

[Umpire in Chief]

Head position is not ideal, but we've said here before there are certain things which are done at the MLB level that we shouldn't do. As amateurs we generally go up & back when we get squeezed. Hunter went to the other side. Had he gotten up and back like we generally do on the same pitch he would have been criticized for his unorthodox positioning and being too far back.

Everything I've seen including Jeff's picture above shows it's a boarderline pitch. Did it catch the corner, quite possibly, but it certainly doesn't warrant the attention it has been given. Me, I like strikes, I am looking for strikes, but I don't have 17 different camera angles on me.

[Thunderheads]

Man that diagram shows a ball big time. visualize moving right behind the mound and its borderline at best.....

You can't tell Allan .....no one can really....

Just watch it in real time and tell yourself ...... don't think about it, just call it ...what do you have :shakehead:

[AllanA]

You can't tell Allan .....no one can really....

Just watch it in real time and tell yourself ...... don't think about it, just call it ...what do you have

Hee hee hee hee BALL :-)

Cuz thats what Hunter (UIC) said.........hee hee hee hee hee

[mstaylor]

You say look at Hunter's position, which I did, and my first thought look at the catcher's position. Hunter has no look at that pitch so guess what is, A Ball!

[JamesC]

Ok, I watched the whole game, and also watched the post game conference with Berkman. HW's strikezone was very consistent for the most part. He wasn't giving the inside corner and he WAS giving the outside corner, as is evident on this very at bat. First pitch was a bit off the plate (still close, but most would consider it a ball I think) and HW called it a strike. Now I know there is no such thing as a "makeup call" but this is about as close as you can get without it being intentional (not saying at all that it was a "makeup call"). Petite was throwing all over the outside corner to lefties all night and wasn't getting them. Yea, maybe the pitch was a strike, but so were a lot of others that weren't called, and vice versa. Regardless the call, it is still the players' responsibility to bounce back. Just because you didn't get the call you wanted doesn't mean you whine about it. He did make a good pitch next pitch, but Berkman made a better swing on it. Just one of those things that happens.

Oh and btw, everyone in that ballpark knew that ball wasn't trapped the night before, but the umpires got together and I'm guessing the conversation went a little like this:

"What you got?"

"Looked to me like it might have hit the ground..."

"I'm pretty sure he got the glove under it, but there is no way we're changing your call, we're sticking with it"

Just like all of ours goes when the coaches come out and ask us to "change our partner's call"

Just my 2 cents

[Astrosdawg07]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-twinsyankeesumpires100710

[dumbdumb]

I just wanted Gardenhire to admit he might have just been given a strike on a close pitch while the front runner was griping about given a ball on a close pitch in the same at bat.

Now I've really seen some great baseball here. 15 errors and 1 passed ball after 8 games played. Makes the umpire stuff pretty trivial to me.

7.666 million to Rolen will get you this, and 6.937 mill will get you this from Phillips(2 errors on the night no less) and 440k will get you this from Bruce

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12766341&topic_id=14873836&c_id=mlb

400k will get you picked off like Stubbs

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12779613&topic_id=14873836&c_id=mlb

Chase Utley--15.285 mill (2 errors on the night)

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12777971&topic_id=14873836&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12778067&topic_id=14873836&c_id=mlb

Oh my goodness, a player paid to field with his foot in ATL. Seems like 400k to much

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12778067&topic_id=14873836&c_id=mlb

And here's some great baserunning that you get for 4.5 mil.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12770979&topic_id=14873836&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12833367&topic_id=14872014&c_id=mlb

And some more

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12783371&topic_id=14873836&c_id=mlb

http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12763929&topic_id=8879212&c_id=tex

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12808795&topic_id=14871770&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12799683&topic_id=14871768&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12799683&topic_id=14871768&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12799891&topic_id=14871768&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12804029&topic_id=14873326&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12755879&topic_id=14873324&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12803361&topic_id=14873326&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12784037&topic_id=14873498&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12847001

Here's how to call for the ball

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12783371&topic_id=14873836&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12804029&topic_id=14873326&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12784037&topic_id=14873498&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12847579

Tampa Bay has a whopping 8 hits in 2 games. Yeah that will win a lot of games.

Once again it just makes the umpire issue kind of mute to me. And no I'm not busting on anyone. Thank goodness all MLBU are in the 6 figure category now.

And I cannot wait to hear the outcome of this from those little prima donna whiners. Frank Robinson probably put them up to this.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5662238

And since there was only one other no hitter before Halladay's (although Larsen's was in the WS) who was the plate umpire(without looking it up) ? (no I could not name him). OK, you could name the plate umpire but how bout the left and right field umps? Hint--their kids are MLBU,s now. (Ans. HP Babe Pinelli---LF- Tom Gorman----RF--Ed Runge

Remember, Froemming was told he would have been the 10th umpire to work a perfect game when they asked him about the walk with Pappas pitching. Bruce asked the reporter, ok who was the last guy? The reporter didn't know. (Jerry Neudecker with Catfish Hunter)

[BrianC14]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-twinsyankeesumpires100710

The Berkman pitch was one of 31 wrong calls by Wendelstedt. Thirteen other times he called a ball on a pitch inside the strike zone, one of them on a cutter to Derek Jeter(notes) that literally was in the center of the strike zone, at the belt, halving the plate. And 17 times – most of them actually benefitting Pavano – Wendelstedt called a strike on a pitch outside the zone.

Ouch.