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Michael Young & 3rd Base Coach INT

Astrosdawg07

By Astrosdawg07
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semper_fi_72

semper_fi_72

Posted
Posted

Personally I have nothing here, one I see no touch, and two it wasn't intentional or assisting Young in one direction or the other.

http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11759303&topic_id=8878736&c_id=tex

It does not have to be intentional.

HTBT

OBR 7.09(h) and 9.01(a)

:nod:

Astrosdawg07

Astrosdawg07

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Ok one if you pay attention to Marquez, at the most he sees it out of his peripheral vision (Look at where his head is facing! And two, just for FED sake, I doesn't it say assisted. IMO it was a ticky tack call, and you can see from one angle there is NO contact. I personally would not have made this call, and NO I'm not a Rangers fan. Go Astros!

dumbdumb

dumbdumb

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ok one if you pay attention to Marquez, at the most he sees it out of his peripheral vision (Look at where his head is facing! And two, just for FED sake, I doesn't it say assisted. IMO it was a ticky tack call, and you can see from one angle there is NO contact. I personally would not have made this call, and NO I'm not a Rangers fan. Go Astros!

This was obviously a judgment call. If there was no contact at all, it was obviously a missed call. However, if there was any contact, it becomes a judgment situation. With contact, had he not made that call, the other manager could possibly have been in his face asking for the out, knowing the rule says it does not have to be intentional. IMHO I would not tell the manager that I saw the contact but that it is a ticky tack call (and I am in no way insinuating that you said that or would ever say that), and therefor I am not going to make that call. Heck, any call that is out of the ordinary in a managers mind, could be considered ticky tack and inconsequential to the manager that the call goes against. That is like saying I saw the pitcher flinch on the mound with the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth with the tying or winning run at third but that is a ticky tack call and therefor I am not calling it in that situation . Just my opinion and observation and since we might have some very young umpires, I worry that they might accidently use that terminology and get in trouble.

Edited by dumbdumb
AllanA

AllanA

Posted
Posted

This was a good call. There was a touch. Ever so slight. Anything you touch can give you an advantage. Like running sprints in the gym. You touch the wall to help you change direction and slow your momentum.

Oh by the way I am a Rangers fan. This was a good call imho.

Allan

Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted

Please show me where Marquez saw the touch ....because he wasn't looking when contact happened ...

As you can see, he used the "shove" sign, and obviously, there was no "shove" it was, if anything, as noted above, ...a light touch. I'm not saying it isn't INT, I'm asking how he saw it ...

He did sell it though!

Mr Umpire

Mr Umpire

Posted
Posted

If you watch very closely, you can tell U3 is looking at R2 as he is getting into position for the play. He doesn't turn his whole head in that direction but he is angled to F6 and R2. And, as soon as the touch occurs, he points at the INT.

This is not a ticky tack call. If R2 was set on going to HP but stopped b/c he felt something touch him, how is that not helping him run the bases? He may not have stopped if he didn't feel the touch. No one knows for sure if the touch aided him or not. So, it is the correct call since the touch may have assisted R2 is deciding to go back to 3B.

Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted (edited)

If you watch very closely, you can tell U3 is looking at R2 as he is getting into position for the play. He doesn't turn his whole head in that direction but he is angled to F6 and R2. And, as soon as the touch occurs, he points at the INT.

This is not a ticky tack call. If R2 was set on going to HP but stopped b/c he felt something touch him, how is that not helping him run the bases? He may not have stopped if he didn't feel the touch. No one knows for sure if the touch aided him or not. So, it is the correct call since the touch may have assisted R2 is deciding to go back to 3B.

Interesting, because when I watch this again, ....unfortunately the runner coming home is blocking out Marquez, but as he re-appears, you can tell (ever so slightly) that his head is moving towards the ball, ...so, when he's blocked, he must be glancing at Young rounding 3rd ...I mean ...you can't make it up, right? I mean, Marquez wouldn't have called it if he didn't see it, especially in that sitch...

Watching another video with an article attached,

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100905&content_id=14314294&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

I found this ....

The rule, 7:09 (h) of the Official Rules, states that the runner is out if: "In the judgment of the umpire, the base coach at third base, or first base, by touching or holding the runner, physically assists him in returning to or leaving third or first base."

So, technically, it's not just the touch, its the judgment of whether it's an 'assist' ...correct?

Edited by Thunderheads
mazzamouth

mazzamouth

Posted
Posted

I have watched this about 5 times... I can't see where Marquez saw this happen, his head is looking for the ball, and he didn't point as soon as it happen either. I think he missed this... this is a really hard call for us to make, especially for the last out of a game.

And for the record I'm a Mariners fan...LOL

Mr Umpire

Mr Umpire

Posted
Posted (edited)

Interesting, because when I watch this again, ....unfortunately the runner coming home is blocking out Marquez, but as he re-appears, you can tell (ever so slightly) that his head is moving towards the ball, ...so, when he's blocked, he must be glancing at Young rounding 3rd ...I mean ...you can't make it up, right? I mean, Marquez wouldn't have called it if he didn't see it, especially in that sitch...

Watching another video with an article attached,

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100905&content_id=14314294&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

I found this ....

So, technically, it's not just the touch, its the judgment of whether it's an 'assist' ...correct?

Correct. Just touching isn't enough. It has to "assist" somehow. Whether the runner stops b/c of it or goes. If he gives a high five during a live ball, how is that assisting? Pure judgment.

After watching this again, it appears Young was returning on his own. So, I have to readjust my initial observation of the play. I don't think the touch did cause Young to return to 3B. Whether or not U3 saw the touch, I think it was bad judgment. The touch did not assist R2 to return to 3B in any way. R2 was already going back to 3B at the time the touch occurred.

I now think he misjudged the touch OR maybe he didn't see it all correctly by turning to F6. Now, I don't think the touch assisted and it was an incorrect call.

Thanks for making me look again Mazza and Thunder.

Edited by Mr Umpire
spiritumpa

spiritumpa

Posted
Posted

I have watched this about 5 times... I can't see where Marquez saw this happen, his head is looking for the ball, and he didn't point as soon as it happen either. I think he missed this... this is a really hard call for us to make, especially for the last out of a game.

And for the record I'm a Mariners fan...LOL

it does not matter if it is the last out or the first out.

zm1283

zm1283

Posted
Posted

Whether the call was right or not, he did touch him. You can tell plain as day from the camera that is 3BLX.

mazzamouth

mazzamouth

Posted
Posted

Whether the call was right or not, he did touch him. You can tell plain as day from the camera that is 3BLX.

yes he did touch him, But did he assist him? That is the question you have to ask yourself when your umpiring, Heck the 3rd base coach touches guy when they hit a homerun can we call them out as well? you have to understand the intent of the rule, not just reading it.

mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
Posted

Don't bring a HR into it, that's a deadball situation so it is completely different. We are missing what was said on the field and I think that is important. It looked like the runner was trying to run through the stopsign and the coach's position lead to the touching.

Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted

Don't bring a HR into it, that's a deadball situation so it is completely different. We are missing what was said on the field and I think that is important. It looked like the runner was trying to run through the stopsign and the coach's position lead to the touching.

And I think that's understood........but ....did he "physically assist" .........

JaxRolo

JaxRolo

Posted
Posted

And I think that's understood........but ....did he "physically assist" .........

I think we will never know the answer for sure. Seems like we all have different opinions and that is fine. It's a judgment call that he made some are going to agree and some are going to disagree.

mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
Posted

I just tapped my little girl on the shoulder. That was harder than that coach touched that runner.

In the words of the late, great Chick Hearn: TICKY TACK!

Did it get her attention, interference! :D :)

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