Thrown Bat?

[JHSump]

This is an old thread, but I think my post belongs here.

 

I have warned and ejected on the second offense by a team (bat released into me or the catcher, or near us).  It is the proper ruling, in OBR, FED.  It is a safety issue.  The defense does not deserve an out, and the entire offensive team should not be penalized with an out for the bat throwing.

 

But consider that last statement (The offensive team should not be penalized with an out for this safety issue) in the context of the travel ball I often work (Nations Baseball).  The rule set is OBR-based + Nations "extras".  One extra is that a manager can bat his entire team roster.  This is often the case.  I ask at the plate meeting, and note it on my "scorecard."  Another Nations extra is that if a team is batting a full roster, and a player is ejected, each time his batting position comes up it's an automatic out.

 

So, imagine this scenario (which I have had).  The team is batting their full roster. In his first at bat, a batter releases his bat into the catcher. I issue a team warning. At his second at bat, the same player does the same thing.  I now inform the manager his player is done for the game.  Subsequently, the third and fourth times the lineup comes to this spot, there is an automatic out.  So, the defense gets two outs for the ejection, and the offense gets penalized the two outs.  The defense even took advantage of that situation in pitching around the batter in the spot before the automatic out.

 

So, what are your opinions on what should be done in this situation?  Just let the "local" rule (I know, made by fools) rain down its penalty?  Scratch the local rule in this case, and say there will be no automatic out at that spot?  (Probably won't fly, when they protest.)    Or, what?

 

I am inclined to just do what I have done in the past: warn, eject the next time, let the automatic out kick in.

 

But I want to hear your opinions.

[JaxRolo]

I don't believe there are any rule codes that call for an out on thrown bats. Warn, eject. They asked for it!

[scrounge]

I don't believe there are any rule codes that call for an out on thrown bats. Warn, eject. They asked for it!

 

With the exception of if the thrown bat interferes with a fielder attempting a play on a batted ball. Under FED, that's a rule 7 violation and would result in an out. Otherwise, we're talking about a rule 3 issue, no out involved.

[noumpere]

I don't know how this would be treated anyway different than any other "warn then eject" scenario -- arguing balls and strikes, throwing at the batter, faking a tag (depending on rules set of course) etc.  The play that already happened couonts of course, but then the penalty for the ejection kicks in.

[SoCal Lurker]

This is an old thread, but I think my post belongs here.

 

I have warned and ejected on the second offense by a team (bat released into me or the catcher, or near us).  It is the proper ruling, in OBR, FED.  It is a safety issue.  The defense does not deserve an out, and the entire offensive team should not be penalized with an out for the bat throwing.

 

But consider that last statement (The offensive team should not be penalized with an out for this safety issue) in the context of the travel ball I often work (Nations Baseball).  The rule set is OBR-based + Nations "extras".  One extra is that a manager can bat his entire team roster.  This is often the case.  I ask at the plate meeting, and note it on my "scorecard."  Another Nations extra is that if a team is batting a full roster, and a player is ejected, each time his batting position comes up it's an automatic out.

 

So, imagine this scenario (which I have had).  The team is batting their full roster. In his first at bat, a batter releases his bat into the catcher. I issue a team warning. At his second at bat, the same player does the same thing.  I now inform the manager his player is done for the game.  Subsequently, the third and fourth times the lineup comes to this spot, there is an automatic out.  So, the defense gets two outs for the ejection, and the offense gets penalized the two outs.  The defense even took advantage of that situation in pitching around the batter in the spot before the automatic out.

 

So, what are your opinions on what should be done in this situation?  Just let the "local" rule (I know, made by fools) rain down its penalty?  Scratch the local rule in this case, and say there will be no automatic out at that spot?  (Probably won't fly, when they protest.)    Or, what?

 

I am inclined to just do what I have done in the past: warn, eject the next time, let the automatic out kick in.

 

But I want to hear your opinions.

 

 

Me thinks that any exception to the auto out needs to come from the rule makers, not you.  (Some such rules that I have seen only apply the auto-out once to avoid excessive punishment.)

[Dmanage]

JHSump, Maybe the offending player will learn to hang on to the bat after he has cost his team 2 outs in a game. They will never learn unless there are consequences.

[mstaylor]

The players are aware of the out rules, which I don't like, so they just have to deal with it. Since most travel doesn't have a sit rule the double out is not a bad thing.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

[BigUmpire]

This is a great application for restricting to the dugout.

Most ejections carry a post game penalty. Restrictions do not.

[Socalblu]

I emailed Tom Rawlings, LL UIC, about this several years ago and his response was to warn, then bench next time. No outs. Can play defense, but no more at bats for that game. Of course, this only applies to LL. PONY does in fact address this in the manual.

Please note the date of this post

[Lou B]

In LL the umpire can not bench a player, only the manager can.  There is also no provision for a player in LL to play defense and be prohibited from batting.

LL (Andy K) used to teach that after the first bat thrown tell the manager and it's the manager's decision whether to sit the player or not.  If he continues to play and throws the bat again, ejection.

In LL you also cannot call the batter out.  Outs are described in the rules and throwing the bat is not one of them.