I forgot/lost the count. Oops.

[Hackman61]

A few days ago I was doing doubleheader Mustang games and towards the last few innings of game 2, I lost the count, twice. The game was fast and furious with lots of leading off, stealing, pick off moves, bunting, over throws, you name it. I must have been getting tired, but it absolutely frustrated me that I allowed that to happen. I think once my finger moved the wheel on accident as I was coming out from behind the plate on yet another stolen base. The other time I think I just clicked it twice. I had been calling a good game until then. At least in my mind anyway. The parents of course let me know it, but I just ignored them. I know I must not be the only one to ever have forgot the count or had it wrong. I just wanted to fold my tent and go home. I didn't. I came back strong and finished the game, even got a few "Good game Blue" comments on the way out. It sure didn't feel good though.

Any suggestions on a solid way to maintain the count? This is my first year and I'm taking my lumps and trying to learn from them.

[JaxRolo]

It happens to most everyone.

When it has happened to me I just don't give a count and hope the kid hits the ball somewhere. Problem fixed.

If I am asked for the count I will give what I think it is. If I am wrong someone will correct me.

I lose the count less since I started NOT using an indicator. I guess I concentrate better. What I do I always talk quietly to myself. Some F2s think I am crazy. I just quietly give myself the count over and over. Or talked to the catcher. "Ok Johnny we have 2-1. 2-1 is the count, 2-1." or something like that.

[Mike Prince]

Like JaxRolo, I have made a habit of quietly reciting the count to both the batter and catcher after every pitch and before I announce it to the rest of the field on 3rd/5th pitches. Anyone not at the plate would have a hard time hearing it, but if I am off one of them will usually say so. I find it helps me keep my rhythm and remember the count as the game goes along.

If not and I do lose it I just hope we have a ball hit in play before an indicator wheel clicks past 3 balls or 2 strikes. Another saving grace is the foul ball, helps get the strike wheel back in sync pretty quickly if there are any doubts.

I think I've lost the count once or twice in the past year or two, but I've inadvertently punched out a kid on strike two (and I had the count right) two or three times. So even if you get the count right you can still manage to look like a jackass out there if you lose focus.

[3rdGENump]

I lost the count in one of the games I did over the weekend... I announced the count as 3 balls - 0 strikes, as soon as I said it, i thought to myself, I think I have the count wrong. Well everyone in the crowd let me know it was wrong. After going back through the pitches in my head I knew the count was a 2 balls - 1 strike. As long as it does not happen often you will be ok. Nothing bothers me more than working the bases and having a PU ask me the count numerous times a game.

[Jeremy_UEFL]

Losing the count isn't that big of a deal, so long as you don't give a three ball walk or a two strike K. You can always say oh hey I only have such and such count. Of course you don't want to make it a habit, but that isn't something you beat yourself up over. Forgetting a rotation maybe .

A couple weeks back I had a 1-1 count (really 1-2), two outs. There was a conference after a foul ball. Next pitch was a strike right down the middle I call. I do my regular strike call, realize right after it was strike three, and with a second delay manage to finish my strike three call. Slightly embarrassing!

But that is why most of the time I tend to call out the count almost all the time because I just don't want to forget the count afterwards. If I get it wrong, they have a chance to yell at me.

[Hackman61]

Thanks fellas. I did feel like a real Jack Wagon when I left the field. I will have to try something because one was a 3-2 situation. I usually anounce the count every pitch after the first one. I'm not sure how I lost it. Like I said, I was probably tired and lost focus.

[SoCal Lurker]

Obviously if you have a partner, you can go to the partner -- without a partrner would anyone check with the scorer, or is that verboten? (Or do you just figure if it's a game that you don't have a partner your scorekeeper is going to be suspect or biased anyway?) Just curious.

[carolinablue]

We have a veteran umpire that any time you go to him for the count it will be 1-2. LOL

[Jeremy_UEFL]

We have a veteran umpire that any time you go to him for the count it will be 1-2. LOL

That's awesome.

[umpcoachfather]

Your first responsibility is balls and strikes, mentally slow the game down. Those plays happen all the time and the more you see it the more you will get used to it and not "lose it, for lack of a better word). Record the pitch take your time and let the play develop.

[Pops]

My partner gave a walk to a batter who may have only had a 2-1 count. It happened after a lot of pickoff attempts and throwing the ball around wildly, rundowns, etc. The funny thing is, I had the same count as my partner did: 3-1 before the pitch. The pitcher swore he only threw 3 pitches and the DC had 2-1 as well. The HT scorer didn't track pitches, so we went with the walk. It definitely felt bad at the time.

I'm glad to hear that losing the count has happened to others once in a while.

[bam]

A couple of our veteran guys don't keep the count as BU, reasoning that's the PU's "job". I think it's BS. Those are the guys that NEVER umpire middle school/freshmen games. After watching 300+ pitches in 3+ hours I'd like to see them keep the count 100% accurately.

[treydawgmt]

I've only lost the count once or twice in the last 2 years, I think I just have a good memory for that - I have kept score at EVERY MLB game I have ever been too, used to be manager/scorekeeper for softball when I was in high school. That helped. I've noticed though, the more games I do (4+ years total now) the more automatic it becomes to roll the clicker as I am calling the pitch.

When I'm BU I keep mental track of the count, but if a fielder asks me, I'll tell him, "I think it's 2-2, but as the home plate ump." I don't keep a clicker or anything, and have been known to be wrong on the bases.

[Mike Prince]

I used my All-Star metal indicator this weekend after having used Champro 'balls first' indicators for the past couple years. I didn't lose a count once, but I kept working the wrong wheels on the indicator so my indicator was frequently wrong. I guess this means I don't need to use indicators anymore?

[NCAAump2]

Agree with Trey. I also don't use an indicator on the bases, but try to keep the count in my head as best as I can in case someone asks me. I've got other things to worry about other than the count (runners, pick-off attempts, steals, etc.)

[Dragon29]

I don't keep a clicker or anything, and have been known to be wrong on the bases.

Of course you don't keep a clicker - you're not watching TV!!! :fuel:

[umpcoachfather]

Hey blue what kind of clicker you use?

I don't

Whats that in your hand?

Ball/strike out indicator, that doesnt click

Oh

[AJtheUMP]

My partner and I have a signal for this. Low, inconspicuous, quick twirl of the fingers, then we flash the signal down by our waist. If he gave it to me multiple times a game we would have to have a talk. I think it is the PUs job, but Im gonna help if I can. He is called a PARTNER after all.

When it has happened to me I just don't give a count and hope the kid hits the ball somewhere. Problem fixed.

Me too. Even a foul ball if I think i have 2K then I know i do. Or maybe the kid gets a strike and walks away and coach yells "just get him next time johnny."

[HokieUmp]

The game was fast and furious with lots of leading off, stealing, pick off moves, bunting, over throws, you name it. I must have been getting tired, but it absolutely frustrated me that I allowed that to happen. I think once my finger moved the wheel on accident as I was coming out from behind the plate on yet another stolen base. The other time I think I just clicked it twice. I had been calling a good game until then. At least in my mind anyway. The parents of course let me know it, but I just ignored them. I know I must not be the only one to ever have forgot the count or had it wrong. I just wanted to fold my tent and go home. I didn't. I came back strong and finished the game, even got a few "Good game Blue" comments on the way out. It sure didn't feel good though.

I think you're too hard on yourself. I've "forgotten" the count more than once - after a steal or maybe a passed ball, where the I'm more concerned about getting separation from F2, or something - and then I wonder if I've updated the indicator or not.

All I do is check with the official book, to make sure I've got the right count. It doesn't ruin my day/game at all. And no coach has given me crap when I've had to do it.

Don't get me wrong - it's certainly not a once-a-game, or weekly, occurrence. But it's happened; i feel like there's plenty of OTHER stuff I can feel 'bad' about, and this isn't one of those.

[dumbdumb]

Obviously if you have a partner, you can go to the partner -- without a partrner would anyone check with the scorer, or is that verboten? (Or do you just figure if it's a game that you don't have a partner your scorekeeper is going to be suspect or biased anyway?) Just curious.

Who says your partner's count is correct. Just like getting help from more than 100 feet away on a pulled foot or someone coming off the bag quickly when you "are not" straight-lined and only 15 feet away.

[Jocko]

A couple of our veteran guys don't keep the count as BU, reasoning that's the PU's "job". I think it's BS. Those are the guys that NEVER umpire middle school/freshmen games. After watching 300+ pitches in 3+ hours I'd like to see them keep the count 100% accurately.

Sorry to say, but you're wrong. I call everything from HSV-9u. I never keep the count as BU, and if I see my partner has an indicator, I will instruct him to keep it in his pocket. AHSAA (Alabama) strictly forbids the use of an indicator in the field. That's for softball. What happens if you have the correct count and BU tells coach wrong count? S**tstorm. Leave it in your bag unless you're on the dish. If you want to see someone keep the count correctly, you're always welcome to come watch me. I may do 12 games on any given weekend. 6 plates. I did 51 games in April. At least 25 plates. Never once do I go to my BU for the count. Or the book for that matter. Do your job.

[bam]

Wrong is where wrong does. Your chapter may forbid BU from using an indicator, but last I checked, my chapter president doesn't report to yours.

Hey, I'm all for PU being responsible for the count and owning it. But my PU and I are a team. Its 2 vs. whatever. Sometimes teammates cover for each other on blown coverage. Be a good teammate. Don't be a prick.

[Jocko]

It's not my "chapter," but the entire State. What's ok for you, cool. Doesn't wash here. Don't mistake being a prick for being competent. I can only cover what I'm allowed to cover. If State Director says don't do it, I'm not going to. That make me a prick? If I keep the count correctly does that make me a prick? If I encourage others to be the best am I a prick? When I'm confident in my abilities and skillset, I guess THAT'S when I'm a prick. When coaches tell me they appreciate the professional attitude and hustle, THAT'S when I'm a prick. When I go on the field with my uniform just so and shoes looking good, thats when I'm a prick. Apparently, what YOU consider a "prick," I consider a qualified, capable, experienced, knowledgable, courteous, professional Umpire who gives a s**t about the game. If so, I guess I'm a "prick." Thanks for the compliment.

[bam]

It's not my "chapter," but the entire State. What's ok for you, cool. Doesn't wash here. Don't mistake being a prick for being competent. I can only cover what I'm allowed to cover. If State Director says don't do it, I'm not going to. That make me a prick? If I keep the count correctly does that make me a prick? If I encourage others to be the best am I a prick? When I'm confident in my abilities and skillset, I guess THAT'S when I'm a prick. When coaches tell me they appreciate the professional attitude and hustle, THAT'S when I'm a prick. When I go on the field with my uniform just so and shoes looking good, thats when I'm a prick. Apparently, what YOU consider a "prick," I consider a qualified, capable, experienced, knowledgable, courteous, professional Umpire who gives a s**t about the game. If so, I guess I'm a "prick." Thanks for the compliment.

Whoa dude! Have a long day? I think we all strive to do our best, look good, etc.

Just out of curiosity, if you're PU and your partner is in C and you've got a pulled foot/swipe tag at first, is he on his own or are you helping? Or even if he's in a bad position coming in from A - most of the time if you can't get a good look from A, you're not where you should be. So what's your protocol? It's his job and he's on his own?

Look, there are guys in my chapter that are on your side - they say they've got enough to do without keeping the count. Fine. But i think that attitude is inconsistent with other situations where one covers for the other. And frankly, it's not that hard to do, if you're any good with the indicator. I use one but rarely look at it because I know the count. I used to use one when I would drive anywhere. I'd think "ball" and adjust the indicator - and on and on. When I reached my dedstination I'd check to see if I had it right. It's a great excercise. JMO.

[SanDiegoSteve]

It's not my "chapter," but the entire State. What's ok for you, cool. Doesn't wash here. Don't mistake being a prick for being competent. I can only cover what I'm allowed to cover. If State Director says don't do it, I'm not going to. That make me a prick? If I keep the count correctly does that make me a prick? If I encourage others to be the best am I a prick? When I'm confident in my abilities and skillset, I guess THAT'S when I'm a prick. When coaches tell me they appreciate the professional attitude and hustle, THAT'S when I'm a prick. When I go on the field with my uniform just so and shoes looking good, thats when I'm a prick. Apparently, what YOU consider a "prick," I consider a qualified, capable, experienced, knowledgable, courteous, professional Umpire who gives a s**t about the game. If so, I guess I'm a "prick." Thanks for the compliment.

Whoa dude! Have a long day? I think we all strive to do our best, look good, etc.

Just out of curiosity, if you're PU and your partner is in C and you've got a pulled foot/swipe tag at first, is he on his own or are you helping? Or even if he's in a bad position coming in from A - most of the time if you can't get a good look from A, you're not where you should be. So what's your protocol? It's his job and he's on his own?

Look, there are guys in my chapter that are on your side - they say they've got enough to do without keeping the count. Fine. But i think that attitude is inconsistent with other situations where one covers for the other. And frankly, it's not that hard to do, if you're any good with the indicator. I use one but rarely look at it because I know the count. I used to use one when I would drive anywhere. I'd think "ball" and adjust the indicator - and on and on. When I reached my dedstination I'd check to see if I had it right. It's a great excercise. JMO.

First, many groups discourage using an indicator in the field. It just looks bush. They don't do it in MiLB, MLB, or college baseball, so why does anyone think they should do it at lower levels?

Second, you are asking a totally unrelated question. That the PU help the BU on a pulled foot or swipe tag on plays at first base is a mechanic, not an option. You only ask the PU for help when absolutely necessary, and only in these two specific conditions. The PU is totally responsible for the count on the batter, and should not rely on the BU for it. It is part of my pregame to tell the PU that I don't have the count so don't put me on the spot in the middle of the game.

Third, an indicator makes your safe calls look funny. You can't extend the fingers of your left hand, which looks weird. On the plate, you have the indicator and mask in your hand, so it's not noticeable. Sticks out like a sore thumb on the bases and makes you look like a rook.