Where did the fun go in baseball??? Championship game for not.

[Welpe]

The rules of basketball are the easiest of the three I work but there are still plenty of people that don't really understand those either.

Advantage / disadvantage also plays a much larger role in both basketball and football. Baseball is much more cut and dried.

[BT_Blue]

Another thing missed by everyone here is that because the situation was not taken care of either on or off the field before it got bad we now have punches thrown and people being attacked and assaulted. Which means we now have a major legal and liability issue to which, because it is on video (allegedly), the umpires and TD will have very little backing. Sadly this could lead to large fines and possibly jail time.

You may want to think about the possibility of needing legal representation if anything horrible comes of this.

:2cents:

[Kevin Finnerty]

Living in fear of legal action is a waste of valuable time. It also keeps you from doing what is right in this world.

I will never understand why lawyers can have such a grip on so many of us. (I am not addressing whether what was done in this situation was right; obviously it was botched. What I am addressing is how people will actually let the fear of being sued keep them from doing the right thing.)

I had a men's league pitcher have his arm snap like Tom Browning's while he was delivering a pitch. I tore my mask off and sprinted to the mound and caught him as he was slowly collapsing and going into shock. I held his arm together and kept him calm until the ambulance could arrive and the paramedics could take over.

Did I even care about getting sued somehow? HELL no! Get sued for doing the right thing? Bring it on. Sue me and I won't answer it. Win an award and I won't pay it. Period.

I will never stand by and do nothing to help for fear of being sued. It's a lousy way to carry yourself through this life. And I will never pay 10 cents of an award to someone because I did what was right.

You can not let a system like ours do that to you.

[BT_Blue]

agreed. however there is a difference between your situation and the OP. Your actions were of a humanitarian kind. This pitcher could have died from going into shock and you saved his life by being there for him.

The OP includes physical threats and fights both verbal and physical. All of which, if handled correctly by the crew on the field and the TD off of it, could have been avoided. To me that is a liability issue. Yours, though it could (and should not) be, is not.

[Welpe]

Bring it on. Sue me and I won't answer it. Win an award and I won't pay it. Period.

I understand where you are coming from and admire your desire not to live in constant fear of litigation however surely you realize there are numerous legal methods of recovering judgments made against parties.

[ukce1861]

Has anyone here ever been sued for their actions - or lack thereof - as an umpire on the baseball field? Does anyone know someone personally who has been sued for their actions - or lack thereof - as an umpire on the baseball field?

I'm not talking about the guy you heard about from a friend of a friend of an umpire you worked with one time. Have you - or anyone you know - actually been sued in your role as an umpire?

[Welpe]

The only case I'm aware of is what happened in San Antonio when a football official collided with an assistant coach. The officiating crew was named as one of the defendant's by the worker's compensation company trying to recover damages paid out to the severely injured coach. The end result actually ended up in a judgment for the officials.

http://www.naso.org/WhatWeDo/Newsroom/NASONewsWatch/TexasJudgment.aspx

There have been a few other cases that I've heard of but it is a very rare thing and frankly, not on the forefront of my mind as long as I know I'm doing my job.

[AJtheUMP]

The only case I'm aware of is what happened in San Antonio when a football official collided with an assistant coach. The officiating crew was named as one of the defendant's by the worker's compensation company trying to recover damages paid out to the severely injured coach. The end result actually ended up in a judgment for the officials.

http://www.naso.org/...asJudgment.aspx

There have been a few other cases that I've heard of but it is a very rare thing and frankly, not on the forefront of my mind as long as I know I'm doing my job.

Wow. That's just ridiculous. Good for that judge. Someone should tell the coach to stay off the field during play..... :shakehead:

[umped up]

By the way, it's "for naught," or "nought," not "not."

Yes, thank you for that. My application needs some work. I'm definitely not an English teacher.

[Welpe]

The only case I'm aware of is what happened in San Antonio when a football official collided with an assistant coach. The officiating crew was named as one of the defendant's by the worker's compensation company trying to recover damages paid out to the severely injured coach. The end result actually ended up in a judgment for the officials.

http://www.naso.org/...asJudgment.aspx

There have been a few other cases that I've heard of but it is a very rare thing and frankly, not on the forefront of my mind as long as I know I'm doing my job.

Wow. That's just ridiculous. Good for that judge. Someone should tell the coach to stay off the field during play.....

The coach, unfortunately, passed away as a result complications from his injuries last year I believe.

[umped up]

The glaring mistake was made when that loudmouth wasn't thrown off the property the moment he let loose. He is gone instantly, probably with the police involved right then, as it included a threat of bodily harm. Fourteen and under with F-bombs and MFs and physical threats being tossed around? Are you SH*#ting me? If that guy's not on the sidewalk in 30 seconds, this game is over. Period! And I also take action to guard the safety of the guy that the thug threatened.

I can't imagine letting that outburst go---at any level of play. But it is particularly astounding in a familial setting. Full-on brawl with spectators coming out on the field... absolutely not! I'm sorry, but sometimes when umpires allow something to escalate, it does. This was allowed to happen. The PU in this scenario needs to have a testicle implant procedure.

And when both your asses are on the line, you need to step in and override a gutless partner. That kind of scene can not happen. Crew chief or not, that responsibility must be assumed by someone.

Wow!

I just learned a hard lesson. I can assure you that this kind of game will never (never say never) happen again as long as im involved. I should have overruled him and thrown the thug out of the park. I'm ashamed and embarassed. :ph34r:

[AJtheUMP]

The coach, unfortunately, passed away as a result complications from his injuries last year I believe.

I guess they needed someone to blame. The sad part is it was really no ones fault. They were both probably just doing their jobs. The official was watching play, not expecting someone to come from the outside. And the coach was probably trying to communicate with his players. Just goes to show that you can't predict everything in life. We can just do the best we can to try and keep from having situations like the OP from arising at all. My #1 rule is player safety, to me it supersedes everything else in the rule book.

[SnareDrum]

Got to love travel ball.

Coaching travel ball, and seeing how generally poor the umpiring truly was, played a large part in convincing me to try umpiring.

I work mostly what could be called travel ball (mostly 12U-16U), and I get about 9 to10 travel tournaments per year. I get my share of cranky coaches, but they always catch on quick as to what I'll with, what I won't. Word spreads, and I usually have some pretty smooth weekends. Naturally, I *could* take exception to getting slammed as a poor umpire, but I digress.

This was a horrible situation that has plenty of blame to go around. It goes back farther than that game... probably through the tournament and season or longer.

Baseball is a game of steps and development for all involved, and it's a game of wisdom handed down and lessons taught via lessons learned. But what makes it seem that a lot of officiating issues happen with youth and travel teams? Don't throw bricks a me, but I think a part of the problem is that when some umpires get better from working youth ball (that is, if they ever did) their desire to move up (and/or make more money) overrides their desire to help the youth players, coaches, and especially new umpires get better... while at the same time ultra fine-tuning their own skills. I would love for a clinician or senior umpire to volunteer for one day in our, or any city program to work with our younger guys, or even just come by and observe a few games and toss in some feedback... giving back to the game just a little. Do the younger and inexperienced guys have to want to get better? Of course! But should a lot of older, trained, clinicized, schooled, and experienced umpires simply choose to abandon youth baseball? While I'm saddened by the situation in the OP, I'm not that surprised.

I could probably go deeper on this, but I'll drop it for now. Where did the fun go?

[BT_Blue]

The glaring mistake was made when that loudmouth wasn't thrown off the property the moment he let loose. He is gone instantly, probably with the police involved right then, as it included a threat of bodily harm. Fourteen and under with F-bombs and MFs and physical threats being tossed around? Are you SH*#ting me? If that guy's not on the sidewalk in 30 seconds, this game is over. Period! And I also take action to guard the safety of the guy that the thug threatened.

I can't imagine letting that outburst go---at any level of play. But it is particularly astounding in a familial setting. Full-on brawl with spectators coming out on the field... absolutely not! I'm sorry, but sometimes when umpires allow something to escalate, it does. This was allowed to happen. The PU in this scenario needs to have a testicle implant procedure.

And when both your asses are on the line, you need to step in and override a gutless partner. That kind of scene can not happen. Crew chief or not, that responsibility must be assumed by someone.

Wow!

I just learned a hard lesson. I can assure you that this kind of game will never (never say never) happen again as long as im involved. I should have overruled him and thrown the thug out of the park. I'm ashamed and embarassed.

Who said anything about "overruling" someone. The BU has the same authority at the PU. If you decide something needs to be taken care of then do it.

[umped up]

The glaring mistake was made when that loudmouth wasn't thrown off the property the moment he let loose. He is gone instantly, probably with the police involved right then, as it included a threat of bodily harm. Fourteen and under with F-bombs and MFs and physical threats being tossed around? Are you SH*#ting me? If that guy's not on the sidewalk in 30 seconds, this game is over. Period! And I also take action to guard the safety of the guy that the thug threatened.

I can't imagine letting that outburst go---at any level of play. But it is particularly astounding in a familial setting. Full-on brawl with spectators coming out on the field... absolutely not! I'm sorry, but sometimes when umpires allow something to escalate, it does. This was allowed to happen. The PU in this scenario needs to have a testicle implant procedure.

And when both your asses are on the line, you need to step in and override a gutless partner. That kind of scene can not happen. Crew chief or not, that responsibility must be assumed by someone.

Wow!

I just learned a hard lesson. I can assure you that this kind of game will never (never say never) happen again as long as im involved. I should have overruled him and thrown the thug out of the park. I'm ashamed and embarassed.

Who said anything about "overruling" someone. The BU has the same authority at the PU. If you decide something needs to be taken care of then do it.

Yes but I always thought that the PU ruled the game as far as when he makes a decision, it's his decision. Period! He made the choice to keep the thug in the game, I allowed it because he was the chief. Sorry I didn't realize I should have overruled the one in charge....

[BT_Blue]

That is true. He does have the most authority in terms of running the game. But you have just as much jurisdiction when it comes to the safety of the people on the field and running of the game in general. Where it gets tough for you is when he decides to keep these jack-holes in the game. However if they keep acting out, you can now assert your option to remove these problem children from the grounds.

[yawetag]

You are going above him... in a way.

If the participant is yelling at your partner, give your partner the chance to dump him. If he doesn't make any indication he's doing something about it, feel free to do it yourself.

[yawetag]

You are going above him... in a way.

If the participant is yelling at your partner, give your partner the chance to dump him. If he doesn't make any indication he's doing something about it, feel free to do it yourself.

[BT_Blue]

You are going above him... in a way.

If the participant is yelling at your partner, give your partner the chance to dump him. If he doesn't make any indication he's doing something about it, feel free to do it yourself.

Agreed. Thats what I meant by him putting you guys in a bit of a spot by deciding to keep these idiots. However if they continue to "act up" then you can handle the situation on your own. They had the chance to calm down when you partner kept them and now you have had enough.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Bring it on. Sue me and I won't answer it. Win an award and I won't pay it. Period.

I understand where you are coming from and admire your desire not to live in constant fear of litigation however surely you realize there are numerous legal methods of recovering judgments made against parties.

I fully and completely understand how it works, and if I ever have a judgment against me for doing something right, I will never pay 10 cents. There are ways to avoid it and there are ways to ignore lawsuits. I don't believe in our system of injustice, period. I refuse to participate in it, and I do not rely on it for anything.

[Kevin Finnerty]

By the way, it's "for naught," or "nought," not "not."

Yes, thank you for that. My application needs some work. I'm definitely not an English teacher.

I just enjoyed writing that sentence.

[scrounge]

Bring it on. Sue me and I won't answer it. Win an award and I won't pay it. Period.

I understand where you are coming from and admire your desire not to live in constant fear of litigation however surely you realize there are numerous legal methods of recovering judgments made against parties.

I fully and completely understand how it works, and if I ever have a judgment against me for doing something right, I will never pay 10 cents. There are ways to avoid it and there are ways to ignore lawsuits. I don't believe in our system of injustice, period. I refuse to participate in it, and I do not rely on it for anything.

Ok, I understand your point of view and in many ways admire parts of it. You can refuse to participate in it - but the people who control garnishment of your income participate in it. The people that can put a lien on your house participate in it. The people with the power, the people who can wield force, ultimately the people with handcuffs and weapons participate in it. You may not be interested in working with them but should the time come, they may be very interested in working with you. And no amount of tough talking or refusal to participate will change that.

I certainly pray it doesn't come to that for ANY of us.

[ukce1861]

I'm in the "A" slot and I hear a parent on the 3rd base side say, " hey watch your language there's kids present ". I took notice but thought nothing of it thinking it was just a player using bad language telling a story or what have you. Then all the sudden I hear, " F U Mother FR, I'll kick your ass "! There was this person in the dugout talking to a fan on their side.

Here's where things went wrong. When you hear this, and see that's it coming from inside the dugout - he's gone. He should've been ejected before you even got to the dugout; when you get there, you're just shutting down the discussion and telling him to leave immediately. Then your partner never has an opportunity to let him stay.

[LMSANS]

The coach, unfortunately, passed away as a result complications from his injuries last year I believe.

I guess they needed someone to blame. The sad part is it was really no ones fault. They were both probably just doing their jobs. The official was watching play, not expecting someone to come from the outside. And the coach was probably trying to communicate with his players. Just goes to show that you can't predict everything in life. We can just do the best we can to try and keep from having situations like the OP from arising at all. My #1 rule is player safety, to me it supersedes everything else in the rule book.

The coach was not where he was supposed to be, that is why there was contact. The insurance company sued everybody it could in trying to recover some of it's costs.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Bring it on. Sue me and I won't answer it. Win an award and I won't pay it. Period.

I understand where you are coming from and admire your desire not to live in constant fear of litigation however surely you realize there are numerous legal methods of recovering judgments made against parties.

I fully and completely understand how it works, and if I ever have a judgment against me for doing something right, I will never pay 10 cents. There are ways to avoid it and there are ways to ignore lawsuits. I don't believe in our system of injustice, period. I refuse to participate in it, and I do not rely on it for anything.

Ok, I understand your point of view and in many ways admire parts of it. You can refuse to participate in it - but the people who control garnishment of your income participate in it. The people that can put a lien on your house participate in it. The people with the power, the people who can wield force, ultimately the people with handcuffs and weapons participate in it. You may not be interested in working with them but should the time come, they may be very interested in working with you. And no amount of tough talking or refusal to participate will change that.

I certainly pray it doesn't come to that for ANY of us.

Those things you describe: It would never get to that. Not with me.

I'm telling you, an unjust award can be dodged. And it can be dodged more easily than a just award.