Helping the Association

[Thunderheads]

All ...

I work out of a nice little association. Granted, a lot of the umpires are younger, but our assignor takes care of us, backs us, is organized and cares about what goes on.

All that said, ... I work with people involved with the org, and coach in the org with different teams, and every morning I'm hearing stories of situations that should never be happening. Stories of calls and rulings by umpires that are just disastrous.

Last night, I checked out a few games happening virtually across the street from me. On a scale from 1 to 10, looking at the umpires in all situations, from appearance to performance (these were all younger guys), and the best I could come up with is a 5/6 , on average. NOW, I'm not saying I'm perfect by any stretch, but .....

QUESTION:

Is it ok for me to offer help in making the umpires association better, whether it be in training, evals, etc? I don't see why not? Something needs to be done based on what I'm hearing and seeing.

What would you do, and what's the best way to go about it?

Thoughts?

Thanks

Edited June 16, 2010 by Thunderheads

[catoblue]

If it helps out the overall effectiveness and reputation of the association... definitely!

I don't know if you have competing associations (we don't here), but if you do, getting yours to be "cream of the crop" will only benefit everyone - more leagues, higher quality leagues, more games for all.

[dawg-man]

Just be careful going by hearsay. People always talk about umpires and very rarely is it good. If you see something that can help an umpire such as mechanics or appearance then I see nothing wrong with telling them. If they want to improve they will take in as constructive and appreciate the feedback. Others will not and that is their decision I suppose. When I go watch a game I try and talk with the umpires afterwards and tell them what I saw. I always leave them with a good word of encouragement.

[Thunderheads]

Just be careful going by hearsay. People always talk about umpires and very rarely is it good. If you see something that can help an umpire such as mechanics or appearance then I see nothing wrong with telling them. If they want to improve they will take in as constructive and appreciate the feedback. Others will not and that is their decision I suppose. When I go watch a game I try and talk with the umpires afterwards and tell them what I saw. I always leave them with a good word of encouragement.

I'm new to the org, so I don't feel that it's right for me to suggest something to someone else, although, I understand your comment.

The source I have is valid, and is from a true 'baseball' guy who knows his stuff. Trust me, when he comes to me with stories, I'm going to believe him,..he's been around the game a long time.

[buddywilshire]

I don't think anyone would be upset if a expirenced ump gave some suggestions to help improve an association. That is what we are all here for I would think. It sounds to me like that is just a league that maybe happy with what they have. One league I used to do had poor umps. I felt like many times it was me vs the world out there. But that league was just what it was. There were 100 ways to improve their umps but they simply didn't care because of what they paid and claiming to be a "rec league" they were happy with the umps. Maybe that is something that is going on with your association.

Also let's not forget there are three sides to every story: Your, mine and the turth. I don't care how long your friend has been in baseball, still doesn't mean he wouldn't leave the part out that made him look like a jerk.

[NovaScotiaBlue]

I'm new to the org, so I don't feel that it's right for me to suggest something to someone else, although, I understand your comment.

The source I have is valid, and is from a true 'baseball' guy who knows his stuff. Trust me, when he comes to me with stories, I'm going to believe him,..he's been around the game a long time.

The association I belong to in Canada offers regular supervision of the younger/newer umpires right up to seasoned vets that have achieved the highest levels of minor baseball What I hear as the biggest gripe amongst newer umpires, especially the ones that have an ambition to move up, is a lack of supervision and instruction during the season which will help them get better.

So if you are looking to improve the abilities of the younger guys, make an offer to your UIC to supervise a few games a week. I'm sure the offer would be appreciated. The only danger is you could be on or at a diamond 7 days a week either working a game or supervising. But good luck with it.

[Thunderheads]

Also let's not forget there are three sides to every story: Your, mine and the turth. I don't care how long your friend has been in baseball, still doesn't mean he wouldn't leave the part out that made him look like a jerk.

Guys, ...trust me, ...when a guy who assistant coaches both his 11 and 13 year olds travel team ...and tells me he had a sitch where the bases were loaded, ground ball to F1, tosses to F2 and the ump calls him safe.

Coach says, 'blue, why is he safe?" He says "he didnt' tag him" , he says, "it's a force", ..... " well he was off the plate" .........

come on....I'm not talking complicated stuff here guys ...

[buddywilshire]

Guys, ...trust me, ...when a guy who assistant coaches both his 11 and 13 year olds travel team ...and tells me he had a sitch where the bases were loaded, ground ball to F1, tosses to F2 and the ump calls him safe.

Coach says, 'blue, why is he safe?" He says "he didnt' tag him" , he says, "it's a force", ..... " well he was off the plate" .........

come on....I'm not talking complicated stuff here guys ...

I'm not trying to be a jerk here or argue your point but guys who are assistant on traveling teams I have always found to be the least trustworthy when it comes to telling me stories about a game. Like I always like to say if they knew half as much as they think they knew, they would twice as much as they know.

I don't get the issue with the call here? That is a total HTBT. You don't know what happened, and just going by some assistant rats story doesn't prove anything. The guy ask a question, got an answer, asked another question and got another one. What is the issue? Because your friend didn't like the answer, that is the issue.

Besides you are talking about improving your association, what could anything you suggest improve the association to stop calls like this? Pay more money to hire better umps? That isn't happening. Clearly what we have here is an upset rat about a call that may or may not have been missed.

[noumpere]

Work within the organization to provide help. Do NOT just go across the street and offer unsolicited advice to the younger umpires who are a 5/6 out of 10 on your scale -=- especially if you are new.

Just call the officers and say "how can I help?"

[BrianC14]

I'm new to the org, so I don't feel that it's right for me to suggest something to someone else, although, I understand your comment.

The source I have is valid, and is from a true 'baseball' guy who knows his stuff. Trust me, when he comes to me with stories, I'm going to believe him,..he's been around the game a long time.

I'd stick with your own observations. Remember that you'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

As for approaching the big dog in the association - absolutely do that. Go in with the idea of simply offering to help out, leave the negatives out of it. :nod:

[BrianC14]

Work within the organization to provide help. Do NOT just go across the street and offer unsolicited advice to the younger umpires who are a 5/6 out of 10 on your scale -=- especially if you are new.

Just call the officers and say "how can I help?"

+1. :nod:

[Umpire in Chief]

Work within the organization to provide help. Do NOT just go across the street and offer unsolicited advice to the younger umpires who are a 5/6 out of 10 on your scale -=- especially if you are new.

Just call the officers and say "how can I help?"

Yes work with in your organization. There may be politics or what not but everybody will come out a winner.

[Thunderheads]

I'm not trying to be a jerk here or argue your point but guys who are assistant on traveling teams I have always found to be the least trustworthy when it comes to telling me stories about a game. Like I always like to say if they knew half as much as they think they knew, they would twice as much as they know.

I know you're not being a jerk, no problem buddy

I've done this guys games, ...I see this guy every day at work. His stories he tells me are done with a smile, he's not bitching at me about it, he actually finds the situations funny, and his teams just let it go and play. This guy isn't being a jerk whatsoever.

I don't get the issue with the call here? That is a total HTBT. You don't know what happened, and just going by some assistant rats story doesn't prove anything. The guy ask a question, got an answer, asked another question and got another one. What is the issue? Because your friend didn't like the answer, that is the issue.

It wasn't his team. It was another coaches team, a game he was watching, so the play didn't effect him. He was passing it along to me as to some of the stuff he's seeing. And Buddy, .... a force out at home isn't a HTBT

To be honest, this guy isn't a "RAT" as in the term being defined as a coach or AC that doesn't know anything, but thinks he does. He's NOT "that" guy ...I don't know what else to tell you.

Besides you are talking about improving your association, what could anything you suggest improve the association to stop calls like this? Pay more money to hire better umps? That isn't happening.

More / better training and evaluations ?? Maybe that can help?? Maybe it wouldn't take much to bring it up, ...if only ONE notch ....

Clearly what we have here is an upset rat about a call that may or may not have been missed.

See above , ...I know there are plenty of discussions about RATS and their crap, but this is NOT the case ......

Edited June 16, 2010 by Thunderheads

[Thunderheads]

ALL .....

thanks for the advice ....I'm going to see what can be done via the UIC .....

Thanks again:cheers:

[buddywilshire]

I know you're not being a jerk, no problem buddy

I've done this guys games, ...I see this guy every day at work. His stories he tells me are done with a smile, he's not bitching at me about it, he actually finds the situations funny, and his teams just let it go and play. This guy isn't being a jerk whatsoever.

It wasn't his team. It was another coaches team, a game he was watching, so the play didn't effect him. He was passing it along to me as to some of the stuff he's seeing. And Buddy, .... a force out at home isn't a HTBT

To be honest, this guy isn't a "RAT" as in the term being defined as a coach or AC that doesn't know anything, but thinks he does. He's NOT "that" guy ...I don't know what else to tell you.

More / better training and evaluations ?? Maybe that can help?? Maybe it wouldn't take much to bring it up, ...if only ONE notch ....

See above , ...I know there are plenty of discussions about RATS and their crap, but this is NOT the case ......

Of Course it is a HTBT, did you see if the catcher tagged the plate? No. Why not? Because it is a HTBT.

[Thunderheads]

Of Course it is a HTBT, did you see if the catcher tagged the plate? No. Why not? Because it is a HTBT.

buddy, I'm done going back and forth with this. The play was used as an example of showing that the umpire wasn't aware that force a was in effect.

The real point of everything is, how can I help and how do I go about it. I have my answers and I'm proceeding with it.

I'll report back when I have some more...

Again, thanks guys......

Edited June 16, 2010 by Thunderheads

[yawetag]

More / better training and evaluations ?? Maybe that can help?? Maybe it wouldn't take much to bring it up, ...if only ONE notch ....

That's all well and good. However, at the local park, no one wants to learn. The league held a clinic before the season started, in which all umpires were (supposedly) required to attend. While the clinic was a joke, only myself, the UIC, and one other umpire showed up from our field. That's it.

In fact, most of the lower-level umpires are players from older teams trying to make a few bucks for the summer. These kids know very little about the rules, and much less about umpiring. While I enjoy helping out someone that's trying, I'd rather work these games by myself.

[buddywilshire]

That's all well and good. However, at the local park, no one wants to learn. The league held a clinic before the season started, in which all umpires were (supposedly) required to attend. While the clinic was a joke, only myself, the UIC, and one other umpire showed up from our field. That's it.

In fact, most of the lower-level umpires are players from older teams trying to make a few bucks for the summer. These kids know very little about the rules, and much less about umpiring. While I enjoy helping out someone that's trying, I'd rather work these games by myself.

100% Right! In one league I used to do one year I was incharge of training kids for the first two weeks of one season. I had 10 games the first week with 10-15 new umpires. Why was I put incharge? Because I had being doing it for about 4 years and I was a SR ump. I shouldn't have been training these kids, I knew just enough to get me through a game. It was joke. Years later I'm a better ump and have something to offer these kids, not when I was incharge. The one thing I learned is just like any job if the people only want to be average at it, they will be average. Sure you get better by doing more games and seeing different things happen, but that is only going to take you so far. I'm a better ump today then I was yesterday because I want to learn, and like yawetag said when you get kids just trying to maek some extra cash you are going to get mistakes.