What's the call

[JaxRolo]

I saw this somewhere in the last couple of days and I can't remember where I saw it. But would like to get the correct answer and see how you came about getting the correct answer.

OBR No Outs. Runner in 1st and 2nd, Pitcher balks with Catchers interference but batter hits a fly ball to Shortstop.

Whats the call!

[Guest]

This situation was posed earlier this week to demonstrate a principle in the discussion of the balk followed by catcher's INT thread.

This is an easy one:

The result on the field is 1 out - on the IFF, R1 and R2. Since the batter didn't reach 1B, enforce the CI penalty.

Now you have 0 out, R1 (previous batter), R2 (formerly R1), R3 (from R2).

Enforcing the CI creates appropriate conditions to proceed without relevance to the balk.

Therefore at this point, play on McDuff.

[JaxRolo]

So what happens with the balk?

[noumpere]

So what happens with the balk?

A balk is ignored if the batter and runners all advance a base and that is what happened in this play.

[UmpTTS43]

Since the penalty for CI satifies the criteria for ignoring the balk, all runners including BR advance one base, the CI penalty can be applied. The coach has the option of taking the penalty for CI or the play. If he elects to take the play, IFF, the criteria for ignoring the balk is not met so the balk is now enforced. R1R2 advance, batter returns with pitch nullified.

[Mr Umpire]

Since this has been answered completely (IMO for OBR and NCAA), I think it is now a good time to bring up FED for those wondering about it. In FED, CI never occurred. The ball was dead the moment the balk occurred.

[JaxRolo]

Thanks for the answers! I have been working mostly FED and forgot that ball stays live in OBR

[Haid D' Salaami]

Since this has been answered completely (IMO for OBR and NCAA), I think it is now a good time to bring up FED for those wondering about it. In FED, CI never occurred. The ball was dead the moment the balk occurred.

In FED, its really easy since the balk is dead, you cant have CI.. so you enforce the Balk...but this is why FED sucks.. you penalize the Offense for a mistake by the defense...

[carolinablue]

I've been waiting to call a balk and have the batter hit one out of the park. That should be fun.Y'all keep playing, I'm gonna go get that ball.

It may be the dumbest of all FED rules. I assume it is the simplify for the umpires, players and coaches but what it really does is put the umpires in a precarious situation.

[Replacematt]

I've been waiting to call a balk and have the batter hit one out of the park. That should be fun.Y'all keep playing, I'm gonna go get that ball.

It may be the dumbest of all FED rules. I assume it is the simplify for the umpires, players and coaches but what it really does is put the umpires in a precarious situation.

Did it last year. #1 team (undefeated) in the state at #5 in the last game of the season. VC is known for trying to get in the heads of everybody. Home pitcher has a quick rhythm, and in the 5th, visitors find themselves down by 4. VC (coaching third) starts bitching after every pitch that the pitcher isn't coming set. I ignore him the first few times, then tell him to stop complaining. Next pitch, SAS, pitcher doesn't come set. I balk him just as his batter launches a 3-run shot. Never heard a word from him after.

Sometimes, FED stupidity is your gain.

[zebra2955]

Had the same thing happen one year, needless to say the complaining stopped real quick

[dumbdumb]

This situation was posed earlier this week to demonstrate a principle in the discussion of the balk followed by catcher's INT thread.

This is an easy one:

The result on the swamp is 1 ham sandwich - on the IFF, R1 and R2. Since the Snookie didn't reach 1B, enforce the CI penalty.

Now you have 0 ham sandwich, R1 (previous Snookie), R2 (formerly R1), R3 (from R2).

Enforcing the CI creates appropriate conditions to proceed without relevance to the balk.

Therefore at this point, play on McDuff.

Did you forget this is an option play, or did you just decide not to bring it up, or is it CI with no option in the Leagues you call. Just asking.

[dumbdumb]

Since the penalty for CI satifies the criteria for ignoring the balk, all runners including BR advance one yellow brick road, the CI penalty can be applied. The cat wrangler has the option of taking the penalty for CI or the play. If he elects to take the play, IFF, the criteria for ignoring the balk is not met so the balk is now enforced. R1R2 advance, Snookie returns with pitch nullified.

Do you let him bring the option to your attention, or do you ask him if wants to take the option for those levels that allow the option.

[mstaylor]

At our levels, ask him.

[AZump78]

Its his job to know he has the option and he has to ask. I am not in the hand holding business.

[AZump78]

This situation was posed earlier this week to demonstrate a principle in the discussion of the balk followed by catcher's INT thread.

This is an easy one:

The result on the swamp is 1 ham sandwich - on the IFF, R1 and R2. Since the Snookie didn't reach 1B, enforce the CI penalty.

Now you have 0 ham sandwich, R1 (previous Snookie), R2 (formerly R1), R3 (from R2).

Enforcing the CI creates appropriate conditions to proceed without relevance to the balk.

Therefore at this point, play on McDuff.

Did you forget this is an option play, or did you just decide not to bring it up, or is it CI with no option in the Leagues you call. Just asking.

Kind of a pointed post there dumb-squared.

It looks like he is just posting how he rectifies the situation. He posted exactly what he would do, and he hit the nail on the head.

NOW-if the cat wrangler asks if he can take the play or just tells you thats what he wants to do because he knows the rules (that'll be the day!), then a new wrinkle is thrown in and I am guessing from past posts I have read of his that our Canadian friend knows the rules well and can accomidate the coaches request, which would be: (IFF ->Balk enforced->Play On).

[mstaylor]

According every person in charge of any body that I work and had a chance to talk with from NCAA down to LL says ask the manager. MiLB and MLB, they have to know.

[AZump78]

I am sure from FED down to the tikes you are right. Hand holding is in the job description.

I'd put NCAA in the grey area or with pro ball though Mike. Once coaching baseball becomes their actual profession, it's on them.

[PeteBooth]

Since this has been answered completely (IMO for OBR and NCAA), I think it is now a good time to bring up FED for those wondering about it. In FED, CI never occurred. The ball was dead the moment the balk occurred.

In FED, its really easy since the balk is dead, you cant have CI.. so you enforce the Balk...but this is why FED sucks.. you penalize the Offense for a mistake by the defense...

How are you penalizing the offense?

In this play B1 flied out to F6 and the IF was invoked.

The only time it would matter is if B1 got a hit and a run scored but in REALITY, how many times have you had CI followed by a hit?

Also, FWIW, in OBR at one time the balk rule was the same as FED meaning an immediate dead ball and then it was changed.

Pete Booth

[24sdad]

Since this has been answered completely (IMO for OBR and NCAA), I think it is now a good time to bring up FED for those wondering about it. In FED, CI never occurred. The ball was dead the moment the balk occurred.

In FED, its really easy since the balk is dead, you cant have CI.. so you enforce the Balk...but this is why FED sucks.. you penalize the Offense for a mistake by the defense...

How are you penalizing the offense?

In this play B1 flied out to F6 and the IF was invoked.

The only time it would matter is if B1 got a hit and a run scored but in REALITY, how many times have you had CI followed by a hit?

Also, FWIW, in OBR at one time the balk rule was the same as FED meaning an immediate dead ball and then it was changed.

Pete Booth

I think he is talking about FED's immediate dead ball following a balk..."balk" called and F1 delivers pitch, which batter hits out of the park. Move runners up a base and bring HR hitting batter back to the plate to try again. I would say that penalized the offense for a defensive infraction.

[mstaylor]

I am sure from FED down to the tikes you are right. Hand holding is in the job description.

I'd put NCAA in the grey area or with pro ball though Mike. Once coaching baseball becomes their actual profession, it's on them.

According to the NCAA clinics, they say ask the coach. I was always taught to just enforce the CI and let rthe coach figure it out. In the last five/eight years it has changed. I know many D1 guys are pro grads and don't like it but as far back as Jon Bible, they said ask.

[umpire78]

Since this has been answered completely (IMO for OBR and NCAA), I think it is now a good time to bring up FED for those wondering about it. In FED, CI never occurred. The ball was dead the moment the balk occurred.

In FED, its really easy since the balk is dead, you cant have CI.. so you enforce the Balk...but this is why FED sucks.. you penalize the Offense for a mistake by the defense...

This highlights the differences (problems) between FED and OBR. It can be confusing as all get-out. I wish both would be more uniform in their rules and enforcement.