What would you do?

[GoodGuysWearBlack]

I am a rookie ump. I'm looking to see if you would handle this situation the same or differently.

It's a scrimmage game between 12 and 13 year olds. The third base coach is the asst coach on one of the teams. The head coach is on first base and is as far as I have gathered a decent coach and certainly handles himself well and understands the rules. The third base coach is the opposite.

Here is what happened during the game and is likely to happen at the next scrimmage I umpire: Every time there was a runner on 3rd and as the pitcher was starting his pitch he would start yelling RUN RUN RUN and as the pitcher was finishing his throw his voice would go even louder until the ball was released. (I imagine he sees this as being similar to the runner faking a steal in order to distract the pitcher.) This bothers me. I said nothing during the game as no opposing coach protested. Everyone seemed to act like this was normal behavior. Perhaps it is in this league. I am not too familiar with the league but it has a reputation for being a loud one. I see this as bullying behavior. He probably would not do the same were it an adult league. So here is my plan for the next game:

Before the game at the manager's meeting behind the plate, I will instruct them that I am responsible for the behavior on the field. Unsportsmanlike behavior will not be tolerated. This includes yelling at the opposing players. I do not want middle infielders making verbal noises behind a runner on second in an attempt to hold him closer to the base (I HATE that) and I will not tolerate coaches yelling at the other team. This includes third base coaches yelling at the pitcher. I want to be specific and I also do not want to confront the third base coach one on one during the game if I don't have to. Besides, the head coach is responsible for his coaching staff and a confrontation on the field is likely to not be pretty as the man is a loud mouth. If the head coach objects to this I will explain that I will consider it offensive interference and treat it no differently than if he were yelling BALK BALK BALK as the pitcher throws the ball. I will tell them to inform their players and coaches as such. Should it it happen during the game I will give him a warning. Should it happen again, I will tell him to leave the game.

Now, would you handle this similarly? Differently? Should I allow the behavior to continue? ( I find it hard to think many of you would think so.) I know I should have put an end to it immediately but for the following reasons I didn't: Im a rookie, trying to learn and not as forthright as I should be. Its only a scrimmage game. (Although that makes the behavior even more horrendous IMHO.) And perhaps this is normal behavior within the league? Although the other coaches did not behave like this and its still MY game to officiate. I realize all of this. I just want to know how you would have handled it and what reasoning you would give if any for your actions.

Thanks, I appreciate your feedback. I want to be the best ump I can be and hope to learn from you guys.

And oh yeah, Happy New Year!

[mstaylor]

First, I would not have that 5 minute discussion, it will only end badly. Second, if you do as you say then the coach has not violated your instructions. He is going to say he is talking to his runner and you are stuck. What you can possibly do is talk to his manager and explain to him it needs to stop. The only other option, besides doing nothing, is to directly address it on the field with the coach, tell him he is not talking to his runner. The only way that works is he has to do it several times. It is going to cause a blowup and likely an ejection. It will either cause you to tought of as a take charge umpire or a redass.

Game management is the toughest thing to teach or learn. The biggest thing to remember is just because you don't like something, doesn't make it illegal. Do not make up rules to enforce your sense of fair play. I have seen many things that were bush league but not illegal. I have seen coaches I would have loved to have bounced but they just weren't doing anything illegal. If his actions cause a balk, don't call it, then have your conversation.

Most times, crap like that is best left alone and it will work itself out.

[catsbackr]

Leave it alone.

It is bush league behaivor by a coach.

Nothing more.

Do your normal plate meeting with the coaches. If their behaivor during the game violates a rule, then do something. Never prewarn the managers or coaches for something that might happen.

[AZump78]

I have found the phrase "knock it off!" w

[AZump78]

...works!

[boyinr]

As irritating as it is there isn't much you can do or should do. Your role is to enforce the rules as written. At some point the opposing players and coaches will police this type of behavior. This why they only do that garbage at the lower levels. Call it playground justice. Hopefully the message is sent and received without anyone getting hurt. Don't you just have to love "Daddy Ball"?

[GoodGuysWearBlack]

There is no rule in baseball preventing a player from slamming his helmet to the ground in anger either but I've seen players warned and ejected for doing so. How about a player cursing aloud after striking out? Surely they would be warned or ejected. Why? To preserve the integrity of the game. Is not telling a coach to not yell at the opposing players not the same thing? I've seen several umpires order players to take a knee instead of laying on the grass flat during a pitching change. Would you let a player wear his hat backwards? No rule has been broken. Its in the name of maintaining the integrity of the game. I'm not arguing with you all. I just don't see a difference. In fact I see the coaches actions as far worse than any of my examples.

After reading your posts I will now instead ask the head coach off the field, who I am friendly with and is level headed, whether this is considered normal behavior within this league. Context matters.

I can say that if I were a head umpire in a league I would want the umpires maintaining some level of decorum on the field, especially seeing how this is youth baseball and such behavior serves no one well. Not the team, not the players, not the game. Why do the youth players deserve any less respect than the umpire? What umpire would put up with such harassment from a coach?

I just don't see the logic in throwing out a coach for yelling at the umpire but not an opposing player, especially during live play. To argue he is yelling at his own player is obviously not true. We don't take the coach's word when he tells us "The pitch did hit my batter!" and yet we are to take his word that he is not yelling at the pitcher but his own player by yelling RUN RUN RUN at TOP voice with every pitch with a runner on third. It doesn't even make sense to do so. Why would you want to announce to the pitcher that you are stealing home? How about a catcher telling the batter to "Swing" as every pitch crosses the plate. Would you allow that? What is the difference?

Again, I'm not arguing. I would like to understand the reasoning behind this non-action. I appreciate the responses.

[Replacematt]

I'm glad you are a rookie umpire...after a few years' experience, you'll look back and laugh at this part:

There is no rule in baseball preventing a player from slamming his helmet to the ground in anger either but I've seen players warned and ejected for doing so. How about a player cursing aloud after striking out? Surely they would be warned or ejected. Why? To preserve the integrity of the game. Is not telling a coach to not yell at the opposing players not the same thing? I've seen several umpires order players to take a knee instead of laying on the grass flat during a pitching change. Would you let a player wear his hat backwards? No rule has been broken. Its in the name of maintaining the integrity of the game. I'm not arguing with you all. I just don't see a difference. In fact I see the coaches actions as far worse than any of my examples.

1. This is unsportsmanlike conduct, so yes, there is a rule covering this.

2. This is level- and context-dependent. It may be unsportsmanlike conduct; in NFHS'>FED, there is an explicit rule forbidding this.

3. If he is yelling at opposing players, then you have authority (either due to unsportsmanlike conduct or for inciting a balk.) However, it has to be clear.

4. This is incorrect. There is no authority to do this.

5. Yep, except in NFHS'>FED games, where there is a rule regarding this. I'm not the fashion police.

6. Your assessment is somewhat off-base. Anything an umpire does needs to have a rules basis. Umpiring based on platitudes leads to poor execution and the perpetuation of myths.

This is not a knock on you...like you said, you're a rookie. Once you become more familiar with rules, their interpretations, and game management, stuff like this won't be an issue.

[GoodGuysWearBlack]

I don't know anything about High School baseball. Im not pretending to be an authority on the rules of baseball. I'm not claiming there is a rule about "taking a knee." Im just trying to give examples. The action I'm describing isn't expressly covered by the rules and neither are many other calls made by umpires. (It is possible the vast majority of umpires I have watched are out of line. I do watch A LOT of youth baseball year round.) Unsportsmanlike conduct is in the eye of the beholder. Obviously every example of such can not be defined in the rules. If anyone feels yelling at the opposing player is NOT unsportsmanlike, I must humbly disagree. If you DO believe yelling at the opposing team is unsportsmanlike, then indeed it is covered by the rules, as throwing a helmet would be. Still, I understand why you and others do not feel the same as I do.

It took me several years before I felt comfortable with game management as a soccer referee. The rules and responsibilities are drastically different. Im not equating the two but I am aware that it will take me some time before I feel comfortable with proper baseball game management as well. I am on this site because I recognize this fact. I have no desire to be an MLB ump, but I do want to be the best ump I can be.

Matt: Your post is the second to mention not calling a balk should the pitcher balk due to the actions of the opposing coach. You call it inciting a balk. I would most certainly follow this advice but it would likely lead to a scene with the upset coach. What do you think of after the coach's first outburst you call time, call the coach over and tell him should I (the ump) feel that his outbursts are the cause of a balk, a balk will not be called. Fair warning. (or perhaps before the game? Although mstaylor above would probably frown on this.) The ump is not telling him he can not yell but that he will not reward the coach's unsportsmanlike behavior. Or perhaps no warning? If so, why not try to avoid a confrontation if not necessary? Should his first outburst cause a balk however, a confrontation is probably unavoidable.

[Guest]

With regard to your suggestion of issuing warnings before a game, you don't want to give any form of warning before any game. Even if you're working the back half of a double header and the benches cleared in game 1 after an exchange of bean balls, proceed with your plate conference without even acknowledging anything. Issuing formal warnings at the plate meeting just doesn't set the right tone for the game.

Now, as your situation pertains to not enforcing a balk when it has been induced due to the actions of an on-field coach, there is a rule for that

4.03a

No manager, player, substitute, coach, trainer or batboy shall at any time, whether from the bench, the coach’s box or on the playing field, or elsewhere—(3) Call “Time,†or employ any other word or phrase or commit any act while the ball is alive and in play for the obvious purpose of trying to make the pitcher commit a balk.

PENALTY: The offender shall be removed from the game and shall leave the playing field, and, if a balk is made, it shall be nullified.

I've read many stories from people online addressing this situation. Fortunately, I've yet to have to deal with type of stupidity on a field, usually because the levels I work will handle this situation for themselves, very quickly, with a fastball to the ear-hole - at which point I conveniently lose myself in my inner thoughts for a few moments while everyone figures out why the purpose pitch was just made

If I did come across this exact situation and had to step in to do something, I can almost certainly say I wouldn't jack the coach right away. The first time, I'd give the guy a long stare. Maybe he got a little caught up in the moment, or a little excited. I don't want to go looking for something that isn't there. The second time, its pretty obvious there's some malicious intent behind it, so I'd physically walk down and give him the what for. Maybe even include a respect and sportsmanship line if the kids are young and impressionable. And if he was stupid enough to do it a third time, I'd tell him to "run run run" to the clubhouse. And if a balk occurred any of the 3 times, I'd wave it off.

[mstaylor]

I don't know anything about High School baseball. Im not pretending to be an authority on the rules of baseball. I'm not claiming there is a rule about "taking a knee." Im just trying to give examples. The action I'm describing isn't expressly covered by the rules and neither are many other calls made by umpires. (It is possible the vast majority of umpires I have watched are out of line. I do watch A LOT of youth baseball year round.) Unsportsmanlike conduct is in the eye of the beholder. Obviously every example of such can not be defined in the rules. If anyone feels yelling at the opposing player is NOT unsportsmanlike, I must humbly disagree. If you DO believe yelling at the opposing team is unsportsmanlike, then indeed it is covered by the rules, as throwing a helmet would be. Still, I understand why you and others do not feel the same as I do.

It took me several years before I felt comfortable with game management as a soccer referee. The rules and responsibilities are drastically different. Im not equating the two but I am aware that it will take me some time before I feel comfortable with proper baseball game management as well. I am on this site because I recognize this fact. I have no desire to be an MLB ump, but I do want to be the best ump I can be.

Matt: Your post is the second to mention not calling a balk should the pitcher balk due to the actions of the opposing coach. You call it inciting a balk. I would most certainly follow this advice but it would likely lead to a scene with the upset coach. What do you think of after the coach's first outburst you call time, call the coach over and tell him should I (the ump) feel that his outbursts are the cause of a balk, a balk will not be called. Fair warning. (or perhaps before the game? Although mstaylor above would probably frown on this.) The ump is not telling him he can not yell but that he will not reward the coach's unsportsmanlike behavior. Or perhaps no warning? If so, why not try to avoid a confrontation if not necessary? Should his first outburst cause a balk however, a confrontation is probably unavoidable.

There is a huge difference between game management in soccer and baseball. The purpose is the same but the methods are different. As a 36 yr baseball umpire and an 18 yr soccer official I can speak to the difference. In soccer you can give warnings or throw cards. In baseball you only can warn or eject.

In your example, the coach is being an idiot but nothing that rises to an ejection. There are things that happen in youth baseball that coaches try to do to get an advantage but go away as they get older. Many umpires have tried to stop bat waving, hand clapping by baserunners and the dance by baserunners on closed bases. None of these things are things that we can do anything about.

What the coach is trying to do is cause the pitcher to balk or create an illegal pitch. Do not allow that to happen, but warning at the plate isn't the way to do it either. Let him go until he creates a problem, then take care of it. Explain that he can't say or do something that is intended to cause a balk.

[GoodGuysWearBlack]

Thank you all. I promise to never issue a warning before or during a game. I only considered it knowing I am likely to ump this same team again and I will undoubtably witness this same behavior. I clearly see this is not a good idea. Note taken.

I also see that the rules clearly allow me to if not penalize the behavior, at least not reward it. No need to refer to it as unsportsmanlike behavior even if I believe it is.

Thank you all.

[Forest Ump]

Thank you all. I promise to never issue a warning before or during a game. I only considered it knowing I am likely to ump this same team again and I will undoubtably witness this same behavior. I clearly see this is not a good idea. Note taken.

You are one step ahead already. Keep that plate meeting basic and professional. Last year I worked with a guy who had an illegal bat incident in his prior game. He walked out on to the field and immediately issued warning to both teams that they better not have illegal bats. They were not the same teams he had delt with before. Needless to say that game didn't start well. We had a talk about it after the game over a cold beverage.

The good news is that by the time you figure out game management, you won't be working those youth games where you encounter that stuff you described. But in case you do, you will be prepared to deal with it.

[yawetag]

The action I'm describing isn't expressly covered by the rules and neither are many other calls made by umpires. (It is possible the vast majority of umpires I have watched are out of line. I do watch A LOT of youth baseball year round.)

Before I make a comment, I'd like to read some of these "not covered by the rules" calls.

In general, the farther up the umpire ladder you go, the more you can learn by watching the umpires. While there are bad apples in each bunch (and diamonds in the rough at the lower levels), you'll benefit yourself greatly by watching high school umpires. See how they conduct a pre-game meeting. See what they do when coaches or players do what you consider unsportsmanlike.

[AZump78]

The action I'm describing isn't expressly covered by the rules and neither are many other calls made by umpires. (It is possible the vast majority of umpires I have watched are out of line. I do watch A LOT of youth baseball year round.)

Before I make a comment, I'd like to read some of these "not covered by the rules" calls.

In general, the farther up the umpire ladder you go, the more you can learn by watching the umpires. While there are bad apples in each bunch (and diamonds in the rough at the lower levels), you'll benefit yourself greatly by watching high school umpires. See how they conduct a pre-game meeting. See what they do when coaches or players do what you consider unsportsmanlike.

HS umpires are such a mixed bag, you are better off finding a few studs in your area working at that level and ask them when/where they are scheduled.

I just showed up to HS games a lot in my younger days to see umpires and learn, and I was disappointed more times than not.

99% of umpires love to teach the younger guys and will gladly take you under their wing if you just ask and be sincere in your willingness to listen/learn.

[yawetag]

I just showed up to HS games a lot in my younger days to see umpires and learn, and I was disappointed more times than not.

I did something similar. In my first year, I didn't have a game scheduled until the third day of games. On the first and second day, I called my assignor and said, "I'm not looking for games, but I'm looking for a game with good umpires so I can watch." Both days he sent me to some TOP-level games with TOP-level umpires. I didn't let them know I was there (before or after the game), but I learned a lot by simply watching. It was my third year doing baseball, but my first in high school; those two games sealed the foundation of my training from the previous two weeks, as watching what I learned being put into practice was better than any number of drills I could have completed.

Another tip I learned: When watching baseball on television, especially during replays, watch the umpires, especially on close plays (bang-bang at first, slides into second, plays at the plate). Observe how they get to their spot and adjust for the play. I've learned a lot about secondary positioning just watching highlights on mlb.com.

[SAB_UIC_TX]

I just showed up to HS games a lot in my younger days to see umpires and learn, and I was disappointed more times than not.

I did something similar. In my first year, I didn't have a game scheduled until the third day of games. On the first and second day, I called my assignor and said, "I'm not looking for games, but I'm looking for a game with good umpires so I can watch." Both days he sent me to some TOP-level games with TOP-level umpires. I didn't let them know I was there (before or after the game), but I learned a lot by simply watching. It was my third year doing baseball, but my first in high school; those two games sealed the foundation of my training from the previous two weeks, as watching what I learned being put into practice was better than any number of drills I could have completed.

Another tip I learned: When watching baseball on television, especially during replays, watch the umpires, especially on close plays (bang-bang at first, slides into second, plays at the plate). Observe how they get to their spot and adjust for the play. I've learned a lot about secondary positioning just watching highlights on mlb.com.

That's one of Jim Evans laws of umpiring: There are three positions for every play, starting position, position for the play and the adjusted position.

[Nate]

Well that plate meeting you want to do will only get you in trouble and will probably start the game off badly. As someone said previously here that is just bush league and you're going to get it working the younger kids. Remember that if the coach is yelling "RUN! RUN! RUN!" and in you're judgement he's doing that to cause the pitcher to balk.. Then just warn the coach that it will not be tolerated. Second time just eject him. You have the rule to book back you with 9.01( b ).