GoodGuysWearBlack

[ previous comments from post removed by UIC] Good bye.

Dearest Kevin, Bonds was never penalized by baseball for steroid use. Never found guilty of such. Period. Perhaps as an umpire you suspect the pitcher doctored the ball. You just witnessed movement on the ball you've never seen before. Now do you go out to the mound and inspect the ball? You choose not to inspect. Do you throw the pitcher out for suspicion? No. Did the pitcher break the rules? Probably, but was he found to have done so? No. Are you going to throw the pitcher out for doctoring the ball without evidence? Evidence you chose not to pursue. I will not be the only one saying this come next year's vote. P.S. Your response was unpleasant and unnecessary. Nothing I said was meant as an attack on anyone, including yourself. Nothing I said was so far beyond the pale that you should feel justified in trying to belittle me. "Temerity" is indeed such an attempt. If such attacks make you feel better about yourself, than by all means boost yourself up a bit at someone else's expense. Just know that in no way does it help you make your point. In fact it cheapens it. Perhaps this is why you feel the need to enlarge your letters to a grotesque size. Or maybe you think giant letters hold more weight than small ones. They do not. Let's try to be pleasant internet citizens, shall we?

Not to throw gas on the fire but I believe Bonds never broke the rules of baseball. Was never found of using an illegal substance by the rules of baseball. His conviction has nothing to do with baseball. And if umpires hold the rule book above all else and apply the rules without bias, I don't see how from an umpire's point of view you can not put him in. If a player or coach never breaks the rules but perhaps bends them, you can't penalize them. Or so I've been told . I'm not saying I'd put him in the Hall or not, just sayin'.

Thank you all. I promise to never issue a warning before or during a game. I only considered it knowing I am likely to ump this same team again and I will undoubtably witness this same behavior. I clearly see this is not a good idea. Note taken. I also see that the rules clearly allow me to if not penalize the behavior, at least not reward it. No need to refer to it as unsportsmanlike behavior even if I believe it is. Thank you all.

I don't know anything about High School baseball. Im not pretending to be an authority on the rules of baseball. I'm not claiming there is a rule about "taking a knee." Im just trying to give examples. The action I'm describing isn't expressly covered by the rules and neither are many other calls made by umpires. (It is possible the vast majority of umpires I have watched are out of line. I do watch A LOT of youth baseball year round.) Unsportsmanlike conduct is in the eye of the beholder. Obviously every example of such can not be defined in the rules. If anyone feels yelling at the opposing player is NOT unsportsmanlike, I must humbly disagree. If you DO believe yelling at the opposing team is unsportsmanlike, then indeed it is covered by the rules, as throwing a helmet would be. Still, I understand why you and others do not feel the same as I do. It took me several years before I felt comfortable with game management as a soccer referee. The rules and responsibilities are drastically different. Im not equating the two but I am aware that it will take me some time before I feel comfortable with proper baseball game management as well. I am on this site because I recognize this fact. I have no desire to be an MLB ump, but I do want to be the best ump I can be. Matt: Your post is the second to mention not calling a balk should the pitcher balk due to the actions of the opposing coach. You call it inciting a balk. I would most certainly follow this advice but it would likely lead to a scene with the upset coach. What do you think of after the coach's first outburst you call time, call the coach over and tell him should I (the ump) feel that his outbursts are the cause of a balk, a balk will not be called. Fair warning. (or perhaps before the game? Although mstaylor above would probably frown on this.) The ump is not telling him he can not yell but that he will not reward the coach's unsportsmanlike behavior. Or perhaps no warning? If so, why not try to avoid a confrontation if not necessary? Should his first outburst cause a balk however, a confrontation is probably unavoidable.

There is no rule in baseball preventing a player from slamming his helmet to the ground in anger either but I've seen players warned and ejected for doing so. How about a player cursing aloud after striking out? Surely they would be warned or ejected. Why? To preserve the integrity of the game. Is not telling a coach to not yell at the opposing players not the same thing? I've seen several umpires order players to take a knee instead of laying on the grass flat during a pitching change. Would you let a player wear his hat backwards? No rule has been broken. Its in the name of maintaining the integrity of the game. I'm not arguing with you all. I just don't see a difference. In fact I see the coaches actions as far worse than any of my examples. After reading your posts I will now instead ask the head coach off the field, who I am friendly with and is level headed, whether this is considered normal behavior within this league. Context matters. I can say that if I were a head umpire in a league I would want the umpires maintaining some level of decorum on the field, especially seeing how this is youth baseball and such behavior serves no one well. Not the team, not the players, not the game. Why do the youth players deserve any less respect than the umpire? What umpire would put up with such harassment from a coach? I just don't see the logic in throwing out a coach for yelling at the umpire but not an opposing player, especially during live play. To argue he is yelling at his own player is obviously not true. We don't take the coach's word when he tells us "The pitch did hit my batter!" and yet we are to take his word that he is not yelling at the pitcher but his own player by yelling RUN RUN RUN at TOP voice with every pitch with a runner on third. It doesn't even make sense to do so. Why would you want to announce to the pitcher that you are stealing home? How about a catcher telling the batter to "Swing" as every pitch crosses the plate. Would you allow that? What is the difference? Again, I'm not arguing. I would like to understand the reasoning behind this non-action. I appreciate the responses.

I am a rookie ump. I'm looking to see if you would handle this situation the same or differently. It's a scrimmage game between 12 and 13 year olds. The third base coach is the asst coach on one of the teams. The head coach is on first base and is as far as I have gathered a decent coach and certainly handles himself well and understands the rules. The third base coach is the opposite. Here is what happened during the game and is likely to happen at the next scrimmage I umpire: Every time there was a runner on 3rd and as the pitcher was starting his pitch he would start yelling RUN RUN RUN and as the pitcher was finishing his throw his voice would go even louder until the ball was released. (I imagine he sees this as being similar to the runner faking a steal in order to distract the pitcher.) This bothers me. I said nothing during the game as no opposing coach protested. Everyone seemed to act like this was normal behavior. Perhaps it is in this league. I am not too familiar with the league but it has a reputation for being a loud one. I see this as bullying behavior. He probably would not do the same were it an adult league. So here is my plan for the next game: Before the game at the manager's meeting behind the plate, I will instruct them that I am responsible for the behavior on the field. Unsportsmanlike behavior will not be tolerated. This includes yelling at the opposing players. I do not want middle infielders making verbal noises behind a runner on second in an attempt to hold him closer to the base (I HATE that) and I will not tolerate coaches yelling at the other team. This includes third base coaches yelling at the pitcher. I want to be specific and I also do not want to confront the third base coach one on one during the game if I don't have to. Besides, the head coach is responsible for his coaching staff and a confrontation on the field is likely to not be pretty as the man is a loud mouth. If the head coach objects to this I will explain that I will consider it offensive interference and treat it no differently than if he were yelling BALK BALK BALK as the pitcher throws the ball. I will tell them to inform their players and coaches as such. Should it it happen during the game I will give him a warning. Should it happen again, I will tell him to leave the game. Now, would you handle this similarly? Differently? Should I allow the behavior to continue? ( I find it hard to think many of you would think so.) I know I should have put an end to it immediately but for the following reasons I didn't: Im a rookie, trying to learn and not as forthright as I should be. Its only a scrimmage game. (Although that makes the behavior even more horrendous IMHO.) And perhaps this is normal behavior within the league? Although the other coaches did not behave like this and its still MY game to officiate. I realize all of this. I just want to know how you would have handled it and what reasoning you would give if any for your actions. Thanks, I appreciate your feedback. I want to be the best ump I can be and hope to learn from you guys. And oh yeah, Happy New Year!

@ yawetag, I am aware of that. What I was considering was how much contact (especially when that contact knocks the ball away from the defender) do you allow the runner to make with the fielder on a force play when the fielder is in the base path. Suppose the ball and runner arrive the same time at the force out at home and there is a collision. Is it obstruction or interference? Judgement call I guess.

I get you. However, suppose its a slide into second on an attempted 6-4-3 double play. The slide causes the fielder to drop the ball. If the fielder can not show the ump the ball in his glove or a controlled release to first, is the runner is safe? If so, did not the runner "accidentally on-purpose" collide with the fielder and cause the dropped ball on a force play? I suppose its a judgement call at that point. And yes, I'm over-thinking it. Thanks for the responses.

What if a catcher is blocking the plate on a force play at home. The runner and catcher are both unaware that its a force play. The catcher is on TOP of and blocking the plate. The runner comes in hard and collides with the catcher causing him to drop the ball. At that point is it ump judgement as to whether the had caught the ball? Doesnt a catch require control of the ball? The catcher probably wouldnt have control if the collision was fairly immediate. Would you be more forgiving of the drop ball because it was a force play?

I've been umping for about 6 months now. I think after having studied the rule book several times I tend to over think the rules. Perhaps I am over thinking this as well: Slow ground ball between 1st and second to F3. Now its a foot race to 1st base. F3 steps on base first. BR collides with F3 and F3 drops the ball. All contact unintentional. I called the out. Coach complains that player dropped the ball. I figure it's a force out, F3 dropped the ball after tagging base first. But then again, does F3 have control of the ball? The runner has the right to run through the base and F3 is in the base path. Is this similar to a catcher at home having the ball knocked away by a slide? Does it matter if the collision and ball drop occurs on a force out or a tag play? What is bases are loaded, ground ball to F3 who throws to F2 for force at home. F2 forgets its a force, stands on the base but is blocking the plate. Runner collides with catcher just as he is catches the ball but then drops it. Is the runner out? Any and all help is always appreciated. I'm glad I found this site. A very helpful tool. Thanks.