Runner Leaves Early

[soapbox]

LL Rules. Major League game. R1 leaves early. Ball hit to F6. F6 decides to go to 2B for force out, but R1 beats it. Does the play stand?

[JaxRolo]

Not sure about LL but around here parks have different local rules.

Some parks if they leave early on a steal they get a warning and get sent back to the base. Next time "out".

If the ball is hit in fair territory and the runner leaves early he will be out. No do-over for the batter.

[catoblue]

OK in LL here's the deal...

If R1 made it to 2b safely, the play stands. The penalty for leaving early is to return the runner to the base he left early, or if forced, to the base he was forced to by the BR reaching first. There is more to the leaving early rule, but in this particular sitch, this is what applies.

One other feature of this rule, is that on an infield hit or bunt, no run can score if a runner leaves early. So an infield single with bases loaded, R1 leaves early and all runners manage to advance safely with the force, R3's run does not count.

Read 7.13 in it's entirety - most situations with leaving early are covered.

Edited April 29, 2010 by catoblue

[soapbox]

Thanks Cat. Just seems like offense gains unfair advantage on infield hit that may otherwise be a force out at 2B. I read the different scenarios and doesn't seem to account for this. ASA is easier. You leave early, you are out. Thanks again.

[catoblue]

Yeah, I'd "want" an out if R1 would not have been able to reach 2B without leaving early, but that's not what the LL rule provides for, so I simply hold the guy at 2B.

[DirtyDawg]

Thanks Cat. Just seems like offense gains unfair advantage on infield hit that may otherwise be a force out at 2B. I read the different scenarios and doesn't seem to account for this. ASA is easier. You leave early, you are out. Thanks again.

I don't think I'm mistaking on this, but the play is also dead immediately in ASA, since the runner left the bag before the pitcher pitches the ball.

[carolinablue]

That is a huge flaw in this rule. On a routine grounder a fielder makes the right play but because a runner left a day early he is safe at second and there's nothing anyone can do about it. That sucks.

[soapbox]

You are right. I was doing a game by myself and catcher informs me R1 is leaving early. Well first, kind of hard to follow the ball and watch runner at same time. Secondly, I don't believe I can do anything about it. Can I tell a coach to make sure R1 holds the base until ball reaches the batter? Why should the coach if there is no consequence?

[calablue]

OK in LL here's the deal...

If R1 made it to 2b safely, the play stands. The penalty for leaving early is to return the runner to the base he left early, or if forced, to the base he was forced to by the BR reaching first. There is more to the leaving early rule, but in this particular sitch, this is what applies.

One other feature of this rule, is that on an infield hit or bunt, no run can score if a runner leaves early. So an infield single with bases loaded, R1 leaves early and all runners manage to advance safely with the force, R3's run does not count.

Read 7.13 in it's entirety - most situations with leaving early are covered.

I am aware of this rule and am really glad I have never had it happen because I'm pretty sure OC will get EJ arguing it. Here's howI see it going..... ( How can the run not count? it wasn't R3 who left early!!!!!! Sorry coach but that is the rule....But yada yada yada !!!! See Ya Coach!):rollinglaugh:

[catoblue]

The only real remedy is to warn the offending player, and if caught again, you can EJ him.

[Dragon29]

I am aware of this rule and am really glad I have never had it happen because I'm pretty sure OC will get EJ arguing it. Here's howI see it going..... ( How can the run not count? it wasn't R3 who left early!!!!!! Sorry coach but that is the rule....But yada yada yada !!!! See Ya Coach!)

I've had this - infield hit, not a bunt - I'm BU - R2 left early - everyone advanced one base safely. I called 'Time' and announced that R2 left early and that R3's run does not count.

OM came out to talk to me - he was upset. Stopped the argument in its tracks with, "The status of all runners is affected by the action of any runner."

He couldn't argue. Play on.

[DirtyDawg]

That's just a very wierd rule to me, due mainly in part to there being no run, nor out recorded. It seems to me like you should have one or the other. Either that or the runner should have to go back to third if the base is open. Silly rules!

[Dragon29]

That's just a very wierd rule to me, due mainly in part to there being no run, nor out recorded. It seems to me like you should have one or the other. Either that or the runner should have to go back to third if the base is open. Silly rules!

If 3B is open, the runner does go back.

The sitch we were discussing is bases loaded and an infield single. In LL parlance, the call is known as the 'poof' play - because the runner who crossed Home ceases to exist. 'Poof!' He's gone.

It is a weird rule, but I like it better than the automatic 'Out' that other youth leagues, and even LL softball uses. It serves to penalize the offensive team only if they advance after leaving early as opposed to automatically penalizing them every time. As an umpire, it's harder to call, but c'est la vie.

[kylejt]

Stuart, you forgot to mention that the bases were loaded.

In LL slang, this is called the "poof" play, where R3 just disappears. The scorekeeper writes 7.13, and you unscrew the manager from the dugout ceiling. I've had this happen twice.

The only once crazier is the bases loaded triple (someone left early), and the BR decides to get greedy, and gets thrown out at the plate. All the runners get to return. I've had that one once.

[mstaylor]

I had a coach yell at me I would have to show him in the book. I told him to look at 7.13 and I would discuss after the game. I showed him the exact play in the list. He says, dang, can't argue black and white.

[DirtyDawg]

Uh-oh.....just found out I'm doing little league this year, so I'm going to be on here quite a bit now. So with this "poof" play, is it a DDB?

[fbara]

Is the FED rule for this the same as LL?

We don't use LL rules in the league I ump, so I'm not familiar with 7.13.

frank

[ukce1861]

Is the FED rule for this the same as LL?

We don't use LL rules in the league I ump, so I'm not familiar with 7.13.

frank

Baseball or softball? In most baseball leagues, leaving early is a moot issue because the runners are allowed to lead off. In softball, it's a, "No Pitch. Runner's out for leaving early."

[fbara]

Sorry ukce1861, I should've stated baseball. I do leagues that both don't allow lead-offs (9-10) and allow them (11-14).

frank

[ukce1861]

Sorry ukce1861, I should've stated baseball. I do leagues that both don't allow lead-offs (9-10) and allow them (11-14).

frank

I'm almost certain FED would not address this, so it's got to be a local rule - you'll have to check with the individual league...

[Dragon29]

kylejt - Uh, . . . no I didn't ?

dirtydawg - Yes, this call is always made after all action has ceased. If you're going to be doing LL, read 7.13 very carefully, and then :smachhead:

[DirtyDawg]

I'm already there!!

[noumpere]

Is the FED rule for this the same as LL?

OF course not.

FED allows lead-offs. LL (in the ages being discussed) does not. The rule addresses what to do if someone "leads off". Since it's allowed in FED, there's no rules coverage needed.

[catoblue]

kylejt - Uh, . . . no I didn't B) ?

dirtydawg - Yes, this call is always made after all action has ceased. If you're going to be doing LL, read 7.13 very carefully, and then

Had a leaving early last week. With R2 & R3, R2 leaves early, passed ball. Defense tries to get R3 at HP, doesn't then F2 throws behind R2, who is now between 3B and HP, get him in a pickle, but ultimately he gets home safely, I call time and put both runners back on base. OC wants to know why I waited until the end of the play and didn't kill it - I explained that it's a DDB call and that had the defense gotten either runner out, the out would stand and if either runner had not been put out, they would be returned to their TOP base.

[DirtyDawg]

Wow, that's insane!!!