Runner Leaves Early

[Dragon29]

One of the reasons LL managers have such a hard time with this rule is that so many of their games are umpired by well-meaning parent volunteers (I used to be one) who don't call it - either because they don't understand the rule, or because they're afraid to call it.

So, when they run into an umpire or a crew that does understand and call it, they are often shocked. I once had a manager tell me I shouldn't call it unless the runner gains an advantage by leaving early (Uh, coach - leaving early is the advantage!); I had another who insisted it was an appeal play.

Bottom line - they don't know.

[DirtyDawg]

I once had a manager tell me I shouldn't call it unless the runner gains an advantage by leaving early (Uh, coach - leaving early is the advantage.

Well from what I've heard, wouldn't this be right? I mean if the fielder gets put out, you do not call it, and if the runner makes it, you call it.

[Dragon29]

If the fielder gets put out, you leave the field - it's time to go grab a beer and find some shade!

Seriously, the only time you don't call it is if the runner who left early is called out on the play, or if all runners end at bases to which they would be forced based upon the value of the hit by the BR.

Let's say you have R1 & R3; R1 leaves early. BR hits an infield single and ends up safe at 1B. R1 ends up at 2B and R3 doesn't advance. No call.

Similar scenario: R1 & R3; R1 leaves early. BR hits a single and ends up safe at 1B. R1 ends up at 2B or 3B and R3 scores. You call Time and announce that R1 left early. You then leave or place R1 @ 2B and pull R3 (who is getting high-fived in the dugout at this point) back to 3B, wiping out the run. You then get ready to have a nice, polite, pleasant conversation with the OM. B)

[mstaylor]

I was impressed with a set of umpires working my son's LL minor game 5 or 6 yrs ago. There was a R1, a walk and passed ball. The BR took off as did R1 but early. Once play was done R1 had scored and the BR was on second. They returned the BR to first, the value of the walk, and returned R1 to second. Many would have done second and third.

[catoblue]

One thing to remember about the poof play (7.13©) is that it only applies to an batted ball that stays in the infield - AND if any outs were made, leaving an open base, the runner gets sent back instead of going "poof".

Now, a similar question that goes along with this rule... How many of you use a signal flag for this?

[ukce1861]

Now, a similar question that goes along with this rule... How many of you use a signal flag for this?

I do. It's black and kind of domed - a little bit bigger than my head...

[Dragon29]

Now, a similar question that goes along with this rule... How many of you use a signal flag for this?

I've gone 'round and 'round on this. As you know, much of the time that a runner leaves early, it's not called and/or has no effect on the outcome of the play, so at first I thought, "Why should I help the offense by notifying them? That doesn't seem fair to the defense."

Several years ago, I had a conversation w/another local umpire about this who said he uses the flag (as proscribed by LL) and when it's not something that needs to be 'straightened out' at the end of the play, sees it as preventive umpiring; essentially a notice to the offense that their runner is doing something wrong.

After that, I discussed it w/our District UIC who more or less shrugged it off. The end result is that guys in our area tend to not use it, so I 'go with the flow.'

[jjb]

I don't work LL, and haven't for many years, but, rather than use a flag (which could end up looking like a yo-yo), how about the old softball Delayed Dead Ball Signal (which actually, it is)? Outstretched left hand in a fist, paralell to the ground.

[Dragon29]

I've actually used that before - felt like a comfortable compromise to me.

ukce1861 - IMHO, it doesn't look good for a brother in blue to throw his hat into the dirt. if you're going to signal, use a flag or maybe jjb's suggestion

Just my :wave:

[ukce1861]

Dropping your hat is actually the mechanic we've been taught at the LL clinics. I personally wouldn't use the DDB signal because if everyone returns after the pitch, it's not a dead ball. Why kill it over nothing, when I could just pick my hat or signal flag up?

[Dragon29]

I know - that's what I was taught at the league clinics as a parent volunteer when I first started but once I donned the actual uniform, I couldn't bring myself to fling the hat - something about looking sharp & professional just stopped me.

As for the DDB signal; if you don't need to call it, drop your arm and go back to position - your partner is probably the only one who a) saw you & knew what it meant anyway.

[mstaylor]

My compromise is I take my hat off. If I call it then I just announce it.

[ukce1861]

My compromise is I take my hat off. If I call it then I just announce it.

I like this. Think I found a winner...:HS

[DirtyDawg]

A DDB does not always end in a dead ball situation. In the case of a runner being obstructed and making it to the base you figured he/she would have reached you do not then procede to call time and make the ruling. Instead you just drop your arm. It's the same as if the runner makes it to the base you figured they would reach but decides to get greedy and stretch it one more base. Once they reach the location, you drop the arm, and the DDB is off.

[jjb]

I like this. Think I found a winner...

I'd be afraid the sun bouncing off my bald head would be a distraction.

[ukce1861]

I'd be afraid the sun bouncing off my bald head would be a distraction.

Some of us don't have that problem...:D

[mstaylor]

I definitely have that problem.

[txump81]

I have seen this twice this year with both times a run coming off the board. Once LL Majors and the other LL Minors.

First time, LL Majors R3 is leaving early every pitch. BU throws red signal flag every time. Even throws the flag at the feet of the 3BC. On the play that mattered, R3 leaves early, BR hits ball to pitcher. 1-3 OUT. BU calls time and puts R3 back on 3rd because he left early. No argument from OC as it was his son and he taught him to leave early.

Second time, LL Minors, I'm PU with 2 BU. Bases loaded. As pitcher comes set, I notice behind him that R2 has a lead off about 4 feet off the base. Pitch is delivered and Ball 3 in the dirt, pass ball. All runners advance, safe at home. I call time and send them all back as R2 was off the base. I know it is the BU's call, but I couldn't help but see a leadoff in my line of sight. Again no argument from OC.

[mstaylor]

Good job in both cases. If you find a habitual offender, especially team wide, tell the coach that it will lead to his early departure. If he is coaching them to intentionally leave early he can be ejected.

Welcome to the board, it's a good bunch of guys.

[ukce1861]

Second time, LL Minors, I'm PU with 2 BU. Bases loaded. As pitcher comes set, I notice behind him that R2 has a lead off about 4 feet off the base.

Personally, I would have killed the play here and told R2 to get back on the base. In baseball, this is kind of like a fielder being in foul territory to me. It's just a "don't do that", fix the situation, then resume. Especially in Minors, which is more instructional, I would fix it before the pitch.

Welcome aboard, by the way!

[DirtyDawg]

I had a team one time that the girl knew exactly when to leave. Every coach in the league hated this too. I had more complaints about the girl taking off and leaving early when I was watching her closer than anyone else waiting for her to slip up so I could get the out call.

[Umpire in Chief]

Welcome txump81 and good calls.

Set the tone early and they won't be as likely to try.

[Rich Ives]

Personally, I would have killed the play here and told R2 to get back on the base. In baseball, this is kind of like a fielder being in foul territory to me. It's just a "don't do that", fix the situation, then resume. Especially in Minors, which is more instructional, I would fix it before the pitch.

You'd be administering it incorrectly if you used your approach.

[mstaylor]

I agree with Rich, depending on the game stuation there are times when the violation wouldn't be enforced so you have to let the play happen.

[txump81]

Reason I let play commence is this was the next to last week in the season. If a 10yo doesn't know he can't lead off...Also I haven't read anywhere in my book about stopping play in LL BB when the runner leaves early. Now LLSB is different.

Last night, LLSB Minors R3 comes off bag after pitch. When the catcher throws the ball back to the pitcher, she continues about 1/2 way to home. Pitcher is currently out of the circle and R3 is stopped on the line. Pitcher is paying R3 no mind and then steps into the circle. R3 just freezes for 2-3 seconds. PAYOWW. "Runners out". No complaint from coach.