Two Runners on Same Bag

[Jboval]

Never seen this before:

Bases Loaded - Past ball, but not very far, R3 stops on his way to home and gets caught in a run down. R2 gets called over by the coach to third. Now both kids standing on the bag. Fielder tags lead runner, I signal safe, (As usual, no one is watching me, even though I am standing less than 10' away), R3 steps off the bag, thinking he is out. Now the coach yells "Tag them both", so fielder tags R2 (R3 is no longer in contact with the bag), again, signal safe, again, no one watching me. Everyone starts walking their merry way to their positions, I look at PU, he shrugs his shoulders like "Whatcha gonna do?"

After about 5 steps from 3rd, I declare R3 for abandoning effort.

Spent 5 minutes explaining why he was not out when tagged, why R2 was safe when tagged, and why R3 finally was out.

Not to mention I got my first Balk for a pitcher dropping the ball while on the rubber. (That sent the scorekeeper to the concession stand to see if they had a rule book so they could dispute the call)

What a day!

[calablue]

:nod:Great job....all the right calls ( I am assuming that R3 was headed to his dugout and not just walking down the baseline). I'm sure you had a hell of a time explaining all that. I had the dropped ball while on the rubber in an adult game not to long ago too. It came right after he had balked by not coming to a set. Felt sorry for the guy but oh well.:Cool2:

[noumpere]

Never seen this before:

Bases Loaded - Past ball,

Not to be picky, but to teach (since I think this is the second time in the past couple of days you have posted like this): It's PASSED ball, not past ball.

[calablue]

Now I think it would be called a past passed ball.

[mazzamouth]

This is a tough one for me... you had said that Fielder tagged R2 ( r3 is off the bag.... This base still belongs to R3 till he is put out... Im not so sure I would have called him out cause you think he passed him... is one is tough.. but I think i would have called R2 out..

BTW does anyone know the correct mechanic and verbiage when 2 runners are tagged on the same base?

[Jboval]

This is a tough one for me... you had said that Fielder tagged R2 ( r3 is off the bag.... This base still belongs to R3 till he is put out... Im not so sure I would have called him out cause you think he passed him... is one is tough.. but I think i would have called R2 out..

BTW does anyone know the correct mechanic and verbiage when 2 runners are tagged on the same base?

R3 may still have the right to the bag, should he come back to it, but I am certainly not going to call R2 out when he is tagged while standing on the base, with R3 off the base.

I called R3 out because once he was tagged while standing on the bag at the same time as R2, he assumed he was out, and gave up, walking off the bag and towards his dugout. When it was obvious to me that he was not going to make a go for home, I called him out for abandonment.

I couldn't call R2 out since he was only tagged while on the bag, but while R3 was off the bag. They never physically came close to passing each other.

[mazzamouth]

I called R3 out because once he was tagged while standing on the bag at the same time as R2, he assumed he was out, and gave up, walking off the bag and towards his dugout. When it was obvious to me that he was not going to make a go for home, I called him out for abandonment.

both guys on the base at the same time... R2 should have been called out.

[yawetag]

BTW does anyone know the correct mechanic and verbiage when 2 runners are tagged on the same base?

I don't know if it's "correct," but I do it in the order they're tagged. I point to #1 and say "You. SAFE" or "You. OUT" while giving the appropriate signal. Then I point to #2 and do the same.

So, if it's a situation where the first person tagged (#1) is out and second person (#2) is safe, it goes something like this: Point to #1 while saying "You." While giving out signal, say "Out!" Point to #2 while saying "You." While giving safe signal, say "Safe!"

[Paperipper17]

both guys on the base at the same time... R2 should have been called out.

I could be interpreting this wrong, but according to rule 8-2-8-a, the following runner is only out if both runners are tagged while occupying the base. Since R2 was not tagged until R3 had left the bag, I don't think you could call him out.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Paperipper17

[Jboval]

both guys on the base at the same time... R2 should have been called out.

The rule reads "when two runner occupy the same base, the following runner is called out, WHEN TAGGED"

He was never tagged when they were both on the bag.

You seriously are going to call a runner out that was never tagged? Just for standing on the base? I think the rule is pretty clear here. Two on the bag, tag the following runner, he is out. That never happened.

It was a fluke in timing which probably nobody reading this post has never seen, nor ever will see, in their life. I thought it was a goofy situation that was worth posting about. I screwed up by not verbalizing my calls, which have changed everything, but I was looking at everything hoping I was seeing it right, and by the time I figured it out (a second after it happened), it was too late to start vocalizing. It was basically "Did I just see that right? Oh crap, now he's off the bag... oh, now they are tagging the second guy, he should be out, oh crap, the first guy's not on the bag, SH*#.. they are both safe, wait, now he's walking off the field.. are they going to tag him? nope... ok, well... NOW he's out... " LOL... happened quicker than you can read about it.

[mazzamouth]

The rule reads "when two runner occupy the same base, the following runner is called out, WHEN TAGGED"

He was never tagged when they were both on the bag.

You seriously are going to call a runner out that was never tagged? Just for standing on the base? I think the rule is pretty clear here. Two on the bag, tag the following runner, he is out. That never happened.

It was a fluke in timing which probably nobody reading this post has never seen, nor ever will see, in their life. I thought it was a goofy situation that was worth posting about. I screwed up by not verbalizing my calls, which have changed everything, but I was looking at everything hoping I was seeing it right, and by the time I figured it out (a second after it happened), it was too late to start vocalizing. It was basically "Did I just see that right? Oh crap, now he's off the bag... oh, now they are tagging the second guy, he should be out, oh crap, the first guy's not on the bag, SH*#.. they are both safe, wait, now he's walking off the field.. are they going to tag him? nope... ok, well... NOW he's out... " LOL... happened quicker than you can read about it.

Ok i agree that the 2nd guy should have not been called out, but neither should have the 1st guy right?.. if both were on the bag?

this is a goofy sit.. and thanks for posting it..LOL

[noumpere]

Ok i agree that the 2nd guy should have not been called out, but neither should have the 1st guy right?.. if both were on the bag?

That's right, and that's what happened. The lead runner was tagged while both were on the base. The lead runner was ruled safe. Then, the lead runner left the base and the trail runner was tagged. The trail runner was ruled safe. Then, the lead runner abandoned and was called out.

RIF.

I use yawetag's mechanic, but I also use the player's numbers, if I can, or the words "lead runner" and "trail runner" (or something like "the runner from second is out"). Just make it as clear as you can.

[calablue]

JBOVAL....LIke I said before, You got it right.

If R2 is standing on 3B by himself he can't be tagged out. If R3 returns to 3B and both R2 and R3 are standing on 3B the only runner who can be tagged out is R2 because R3 is entitled to the bag. R2 can't be called out simply because he is on 3B also, he must be tagged while both runners are in contact with 3B or when he steps back off the bag.:rollinglaugh:

[Jboval]

Ok i agree that the 2nd guy should have not been called out, but neither should have the 1st guy right?.. if both were on the bag?

this is a goofy sit.. and thanks for posting it..LOL

The lead runner was not called out until he walked off the bag, thinking he was out, and was about 5-6 steps towards his dugout, clearly giving up on advancing to home. He was never called out for being on the bag with the other runner.

It was a cluster-you know what, and the only thing I should have done different was to announce my calls while stating "first or lead runner vs. second or following runner". 25 years from now when this happens again, I will remember what to say, instead of just giving a signal. LOL

[yawetag]

I use yawetag's mechanic, but I also use the player's numbers, if I can, or the words "lead runner" and "trail runner" (or something like "the runner from second is out"). Just make it as clear as you can.

I hate "lead" and "trail" runner classification on the field. It's too confusing to the players. This is why I point and say "You." Remember, I'm just a few feet away at this point, so there's no doubt who I'm pointing at. If the runners don't understand that, then they deserve to be tagged out when they leave the base.

[mazzamouth]

I hate "lead" and "trail" runner classification on the field. It's too confusing to the players. This is why I point and say "You." Remember, I'm just a few feet away at this point, so there's no doubt who I'm pointing at. If the runners don't understand that, then they deserve to be tagged out when they leave the base.

yes this is the mechanic... get in close..." you, your safe, you, your out." and when you get in close there should be no confusion.

[JaxRolo]

Most of the kids wouldn't know what "lead" "trail" is.

I like mazzamouth mechanic. :smachhead:

[crazyaboutcoues]

Very good thread, one to put in the record books.

On the abandonment...My understanding is there is no abandonment until he crosses the plane of the dug out. At least that's what I remember from a missed third strike and the batter chooses not to run to first. He can still run to first even if he's two feet from the dugout. Does the same rule apply?

[JaxRolo]

Very good thread, one to put in the record books.

On the abandonment...My understanding is there is no abandonment until he crosses the plane of the dug out. At least that's what I remember from a missed third strike and the batter chooses not to run to first. He can still run to first even if he's two feet from the dugout. Does the same rule apply?

Might be true in FED (Not Sure) but OBR your out once you leave the circle.

[ukce1861]

Very good thread, one to put in the record books.

On the abandonment...My understanding is there is no abandonment until he crosses the plane of the dug out. At least that's what I remember from a missed third strike and the batter chooses not to run to first. He can still run to first even if he's two feet from the dugout. Does the same rule apply?

I'm assuming you're talking LL rules because that's the only one I know that specifies he can run until he enters the dugout.

However, even on LL, a runner can be called out for abandoning the baseline, per 7.08(a)(2). Two separate rules here, which shouldn't be conflated. Dropped third strike is 6.09(. LL says they can run until they enter dead ball territory. ORB says they can run until they leave the dirt circle surrounding home plate, but they're both the same on 7.08(a)(2)

[mazzamouth]

Might be true in FED (Not Sure) but OBR your out once you leave the circle.

yes ... but that applies to the dirt circle around Home Plate

[JaxRolo]

yes ... but that applies to the dirt circle around Home Plate

Thats what I meant, sorry

[mazzamouth]

Thats what I meant, sorry

no problem...LOL

[Jboval]

Yeah, in LL rules he is out on the bases when he 'obviously abandons effort to reach the next base'. However, on D3K, he is not out until he enters the dugout/dead ball territory. One is umps judgement, the other is not.