Positioning

[JamesC]

When there are runners on 1st and 3rd, where does the base umpire position himself? In B or C position?

[NovaScotiaBlue]

When you have runners at 1st and 3rd the base umpire would position himself In the working area on the 3rd base side of the pitchers mound.

[Umpire in Chief]

You will find resources telling you either B or C, check with your local association.

Don't quote me on this but I believe Fed says C and CCA says B.

[JamesC]

Well, I have always been taught to get into C, and I would much rather be certain about that pickoff at 3rd and just sure about the one at 1st, rather than the opposite. The reason I was asking is because tonight at our meeting we were going over some base mechanics with some of the younger guys, and another guy and I had a disagreement on this specific positioning. He said that you should be in B so you can get a better positioning on the steal of 2nd, but I don't see why I couldn't see that play while coming from the C position. I position myself in the C position, and until further proof or reasoning, I do not see myself changing.

[dawg-man]

The GHSA here in Georgia has us in the B positioning because you will have more pickoff attempts at first and because you will have a " better look " on a stolen base attempt. Personally I can see the attempt just as well in either position.

[Mr Umpire]

BU should be in B simply b/c he is in a better position for a pickoff at 1B(distance wise and more attempts to hold R1 for a possible DP), steal of 2B, and a DP(distance wise). This is just an opinion of course which is why manuals differ. It depends on how the committee feels that year.

If you are in C, you will not see if R1's hook slide got around the tag or not. This is one reason why C is a disadvantage. Case in point, why does PU get 3BLX for a possible sweep tag at HP? Same angle only PU is behind the action while BU is in front of the action. This would be my argument of why BU should be in B whenever there is a possible tag play on at 2B of a runner coming from 1B. That is why BU is in that same position when you only have BR and he goes into 2B with a possible play(not b/c BU doesn't have time to get into C for the call).

Edited February 16, 2010 by Mr Umpire

[NovaScotiaBlue]

So how do the pro schools teach it?

I believe they put the BU in C. whenevr you have a runner on second or 3rd

Having never gone to the schools but looking at the logic, could it be you are then in a better position to make a call on a player that is in scoring position on the 3rd base side?

I don't know just a thought.

[semper_fi_72]

Either B or C is acceptable.

It has been explained to me this way, which is the way I generally work.

R1 and and R3....Use B position.

Use C Position anytime a runner can steal 3B.

If 3B is occupied, it can not be stolen so work from B Position.

[carolinablue]

To me it's a matter of logic, but it probably also depends on the level of ball. At higher levels with R1 and R3 I think a pick off attempt at third is not as likely as one at first. Also a steal attempt of 2B is very likely in this situation and also a DP attempt on a ground ball. At the lower levels anything could happen.

[UmpTTS43]

So how do the pro schools teach it?

I believe they put the BU in C. whenevr you have a runner on second or 3rd

Having never gone to the schools but looking at the logic, could it be you are then in a better position to make a call on a player that is in scoring position on the 3rd base side?

I don't know just a thought.

Pro schools teach that with R1, R3, BU is in the "B" position.

[zm1283]

B all the way in this situation. For the reasons stated above, and because F4 usually cuts the ball off if R3 breaks for home on a steal, but I don't want to be standing in C if he decides to throw behind R3 if he retreats to 3B. I can get out of the way if I need to, but B is easier.

I am in B with R1, R1 and R3, or R1, R2, R3.

[carolinablue]

I am still relatively new and have not yet read a lot of mechanics manuals and such but one thing I have found to be a little strange about two man mechanics is this: I was taught to be in A with no one on and B with R1 only and all other situations to be in C. This puts you in C for the majority of situations during a game, however C is probably the least desirable position to be in according to where most outs will actually occur during the course of a game.

[NovaScotiaBlue]

Another thread here confirmed the Pro system puts you in C when you get a runner at 2nd and or 3rd so since we want to look like the pro's in how we dress then to me that should indicate you would want to emulate the positioning as well. You don't have an anchor tied to you out there. You have feet which can move you around the infield if need be. Read the play, React to the play and hustle and you can move from C to a good spot to get any play at 1st and or second. What is your excuse going to be when you are in B and that runner breaks for 3rd? and you are on the other side of the diamond ?

[semper_fi_72]

Another thread here confirmed the Pro system puts you in C when you get a runner at 2nd and or 3rd so since we want to look like the pro's in how we dress then to me that should indicate you would want to emulate the positioning as well. You don't have an anchor tied to you out there. You have feet which can move you around the infield if need be. Read the play, React to the play and hustle and you can move from C to a good spot to get any play at 1st and or second. What is your excuse going to be when you are in B and that runner breaks for 3rd? and you are on the other side of the diamond ?

As I stated in a earlier post, if 3rd base can be stolen you need to be in "C" not "B". With R1 and R3 there is no need to be in C since no one can steal 3B, it is occupied.

[sasmallen]

Wouldn't C give you a better angle than B on a steal of 2nd base?

[Umpire in Chief]

My association uses C we're supposed to be mobile enough to get to the B side of the working area for a play at first (obviously not on a pick off).

[sasmallen]

My association uses C we're supposed to be mobile enough to get to the B side of the working area for a play at first (obviously not on a pick off).

Same for us...

[Mr Umpire]

My association uses C we're supposed to be mobile enough to get to the B side of the working area for a play at first (obviously not on a pick off).

I don't think it is possible for a 1 hopper to F5 or even F6 if it is a low line drive straight at him. For little kids, possibly but for HS and up, may not be likely. Especially when BU is suppose to be still to see the action at the base on a close play.

But, it is whatever the association wants. And, since it is just opinions, this changes from year to year depending on the philosophy of who is in charge.

[BT_Blue]

In Oregon they use the CCA (college) manual. So R1/R3, BU is in B. California, for both HS and College the BU is in B in this situation as well.

[BrianC14]

Wouldn't C give you a better angle than B on a steal of 2nd base?

No! Emphatically, NO!

Practice that angle at home, and you'll see why. In most cases, R1 is going to slide to the outfield side of the bag. From the C spot, all you're going to see is arseholes and elbows.

:D

[mstaylor]

No! Emphatically, NO!

Practice that angle at home, and you'll see why. In most cases, R1 is going to slide to the outfield side of the bag. From the C spot, all you're going to see is arseholes and elbows.

I agree with Brian, the steal at second is better from B. I haven't read the whole thread and I have posted this many times in other threads but I am rarely in C. I am only there if there is a R2, a R2 and R3 or sometimes with R3 only. If the F5 is playing in for a bunt or deep and isn't holding then I am in B with a R3 only. If the F5 is even with the bag or actually holding the runner then I am in C. All other times I am in B if I am inside.

[mazzamouth]

B all the way in this situation. For the reasons stated above, and because F4 usually cuts the ball off if R3 breaks for home on a steal, but I don't want to be standing in C if he decides to throw behind R3 if he retreats to 3B. I can get out of the way if I need to, but B is easier.

I am in B with R1, R1 and R3, or R1, R2, R3.

why would you be in B with bases loaded? you should be in the "C" position...

this isnt a bad position and when you use the "lateral drift" to move to look at the double play, it will set you up for a great position to look at the back end of a double play.

[Umpire in Chief]

No! Emphatically, NO!

Practice that angle at home, and you'll see why. In most cases, R1 is going to slide to the outfield side of the bag. From the C spot, all you're going to see is arseholes and elbows.

As somebody who uses the C position, you still get a pretty good look. You still step and open to get a pretty good view. In the R1, R3 sit you are in a shallow C and my shallow C is more shallow than most others giving a pretty good look. Ideal - no, but good enough.

[therefump]

I happen to agree with the B position esp. at higher levels. However, you'll get screeching if there's a play at 3rd (pickoff, etc.). Happened to me last year but I still got it right.

[mstaylor]

I always am in B with bases loaded. What advantage does being in C give you? What are your likely plays? A double play anywhere is going to be better from B. An infield makes no difference where you are and a fly to the outfield gives you enough time to move where ever you need. I see absolutely any reason to be in C.