Between innings conversation

[carolinablue]

This happened today prior to start of the bottom of the first inning. To set the stage, LL JR. district allstar tournament. The coach was chirping during the top about a curve that never got the plate and really not even close.

He comes out to give me a ball ( supposedly ) and this conversation ensued ;

C; Are you gonna give me the edges today, I have got to have them.

Me; I'm not going to discuss that with you.

C; So you are going to be unapproachable today.

Me; ( Insert coaches name ) Were not going to argue balls and strikes.

C; I'm not arguing balls and strikes, I'm just asking you a question.

Me: ( a little stearner ) Yes you are arguing and that's no allowed.

C : They gave you a hard time yesterday ( apparently he was at a game I worked yesterday, scouting and was referring to a banger at 1B which caused me to go as far as " that's enough " with another coach) so your going to take it out on me.

Me; That's enough.

I didn't hear another word from him the rest of the game but was wondering if I could have handled it differently to keep from going one step from an ejection that early in the game. Did I say anything to escalate it. All advice appreciated.

[spiritump]

This happened today prior to start of the bottom of the first inning. To set the stage, LL JR. district allstar tournament. The coach was chirping during the top about a curve that never got the plate and really not even close.

He comes out to give me a ball ( supposedly ) and this conversation ensued ;

C; Are you gonna give me the edges today, I have got to have them.

Me; I'm not going to discuss that with you.

C; So you are going to be unapproachable today.

Me; ( Insert coaches name ) Were not going to argue balls and strikes.

C; I'm not arguing balls and strikes, I'm just asking you a question.

Me: ( a little stearner ) Yes you are arguing and that's no allowed.

C : They gave you a hard time yesterday ( apparently he was at a game I worked yesterday, scouting and was referring to a banger at 1B which caused me to go as far as " that's enough " with another coach) so your going to take it out on me.

Me; That's enough.

I didn't hear another word from him the rest of the game but was wondering if I could have handled it differently to keep from going one step from an ejection that early in the game. Did I say anything to escalate it. All advice appreciated.

sounds like you did the right thing--the only thing different is after the rat made the comment about unapproachable mabe a warning there would of set hte tone for the game

[mazzamouth]

I think you could have done it different.. if he came out like he did and ask that question?.. tell him I see what I call and I call what I see.. if the ball touches the plate in the zone you'll get it...and then ....your off the hook.. But telling him your not gonna argue balls and strikes..is coming off as a red ass ass and unapproachable ...

[mazzamouth]

my thing is the games hasnt even started, so he really isnt arguing balls and strikes...

[catsbackr]

"Coach, if the pitches are in the strike zone, I will call them strikes. If the pitches aren't in the zone, they will be called balls."

"Thanks for the ball.":

[carolinablue]

Mazz,

It was between the top and bottom of the first after his team had just completed the top half on defense. Sorry if my post was confusing.

He had been chirping about a curveball that missed the plate and I balled it. It was one of those slick ways coaches try to argue without Really arguing.

[mstaylor]

I would tell him,"If you hit it, I'll call it." If he tries to take it further, then tell him you aren't going to discuss pitch by pitch.

[Guest]

Understand that the coach is showing you the respect to not bitch you out from the bench, but to come out and discretely have a discussion with you.

Answer his question. Refer to the Jerry Layne - Mike Scioscia discussion between innings in the 2010 ALCS about Napoli potentially blocking out JL from the inside pitch.

What exactly gets said to the manager in response is up to the individual umpire, but the bottom line is that there is no reason to get one's back up when a manager goes out of his way to be courteous like this.

[mstaylor]

Understand that the coach is showing you the respect to not bitch you out from the bench, but to come out and discretely have a discussion with you.

Answer his question. Refer to the Jerry Layne - Mike Scioscia discussion between innings in the 2010 ALCS about Napoli potentially blocking out JL from the inside pitch.

What exactly gets said to the manager in response is up to the individual umpire, but the bottom line is that there is no reason to get one's back up when a manager goes out of his way to be courteous like this.

The OP says he chirped about it already, then came out to discuss it. Now, if he came out and asked where he was missing then it might be a better conversation but that depends on where he goes with it.

[carolinablue]

First, thanks for the responses but I'm still not sure about the whole thing.

I agree I may have been a little harsher than I should have but he was hardly being courteous IMO. He was arguing balls and strikes. My thing is if we play into the " I'm just bringing you a ball and by the way....." deal are we not letting him get by with it. We won't let them argue balls and strikes any other time, why now. Also, do we want a coach thinking we are stupid enough to believe that that was just a question in passing. A," Oh, since I had to come out here anyway, let me ask you something." type thing.

[mstaylor]

As I said above, if he genuinely is asking where he is missing, then answer him. That he didn't do, he was chirping from the dugout and then took a cheapshot, tell what I said before about hit it to get the call. If he wants to carry it further then tell he is not to argue balls and strikes and it's time to go to the dugout.

[carolinablue]

As I said above, if he genuinely is asking where he is missing, then answer him. That he didn't do, he was chirping from the dugout and then took a cheapshot, tell what I said before about hit it to get the call. If he wants to carry it further then tell he is not to argue balls and strikes and it's time to go to the dugout.

I agree, that's what I should have done.

[Cajuncubsfan]

"Coach, if the pitches are in the strike zone, I will call them strikes. If the pitches aren't in the zone, they will be called balls."

"Thanks for the ball.":

I was going to post the same statement.

[Cajuncubsfan]

First, thanks for the responses but I'm still not sure about the whole thing.

I agree I may have been a little harsher than I should have but he was hardly being courteous IMO. He was arguing balls and strikes. My thing is if we play into the " I'm just bringing you a ball and by the way....." deal are we not letting him get by with it. We won't let them argue balls and strikes any other time, why now. Also, do we want a coach thinking we are stupid enough to believe that that was just a question in passing. A," Oh, since I had to come out here anyway, let me ask you something." type thing.

I would make a comment about it not being in the strike zone, then turn around and walk to my water or to my partner. If he chooses to make another comment then I tell him we are not going to talk about it. At that point he shoul just go back to the bugout and tell him pitcher to get it in there.

[kylejt]

C: Are you gonna give me the edges today, I have got to have them.

Me: Depends on how good your catcher is on framing them. He's gotta make me look good back there.

Throw it right back in his lap.

And when he doesn't get those calls he want, he's gonna blame his catcher, and not you. How great is that!?

[JaxRolo]

C: Are you gonna give me the edges today, I have got to have them.

Me: Depends on how good your catcher is on framing them. He's gotta make me look good back there.

Throw it right back in his lap.

And when he doesn't get those calls he want, he's gonna blame his catcher, and not you. How great is that!?

I think he will still blame the Umpire. But its worth a shot! :cheers:

[Forest Ump]

C; Are you gonna give me the edges today, I have got to have them.

"Sure Coach, When he hits the zone, I'll give it to him."

That would be a hard statement to argue. Not confrontational. If he continues and says that you are not giving him that strike, then you can ratchet it up into the balls and strikes warning.

[Dragon29]

C: Are you gonna give me the edges today, I have got to have them.

Me: Depends on how good your catcher is on framing them. He's gotta make me look good back there.

Throw it right back in his lap.

And when he doesn't get those calls he want, he's gonna blame his catcher, and not you. How great is that!?

OK - I have to hope you're just yankin' his chain here. Using F2 like that just sets you up for more crap later because now you've told him you're going to be using the catcher's behaviour to make your decisions. So, he thinks if his catcher's behaviour changes, so will your calls. A bad precedent in my opinion. In addition, it does nothing to actually address the current issue which is that of the manager arguing balls and strikes.

My reply to that manager would have been, "We're not going to discuss balls and strikes." Notice I left out the word 'argue'; if he's being courteous, so will I be. It's a 'discussion' until he turns it into an 'argument.'

I even hate the phrase, "We're not going to discuss balls and strikes today." I have heard/read that so many times. Like, it was OK yesterday and it may be OK again tomorrow but today, we're not going there - ?

[kylejt]

C: Are you gonna give me the edges today, I have got to have them.

Me: Depends on how good your catcher is on framing them. He's gotta make me look good back there.

Throw it right back in his lap.

And when he doesn't get those calls he want, he's gonna blame his catcher, and not you. How great is that!?

OK - I have to hope you're just yankin' his chain here. Using F2 like that just sets you up for more crap later because now you've told him you're going to be using the catcher's behaviour to make your decisions. So, he thinks if his catcher's behaviour changes, so will your calls. A bad precedent in my opinion. In addition, it does nothing to actually address the current issue which is that of the manager arguing balls and strikes.

My reply to that manager would have been, "We're not going to discuss balls and strikes." Notice I left out the word 'argue'; if he's being courteous, so will I be. It's a 'discussion' until he turns it into an 'argument.'

I even hate the phrase, "We're not going to discuss balls and strikes today." I have heard/read that so many times. Like, it was OK yesterday and it may be OK again tomorrow but today, we're not going there - ?

I don't start off a game as a typical, grumpy umpire. It's a game, played by kids. Nothing more, nothing less. My real job offers enough hair raising antics, that nothing on a baseball field gets me too excited. To me, this just ain't that serious. Oh, I know all the protocols and procedures, and nobody is going walk all over me. But in the end, it's just a game.

Me, I like to have fun. If I catch anyone getting too serious on the field, I know how to talk them off the ledge. Only five EJ's in 12 years will attest to that.

Now every once and a while I'll run across a guy (usually rotund, with a gravely voice and an angry gotee. You know the type.) who had his sense of humor removed when they were young. I can sense these toads early, and deal with them firmly. Thankfully they're rare.

So yeah, if I'm sayin' I need the catcher to work with me back there, it's by design. If a manager wants to squawk about balls and strikes, he'll get the ol' " That's enough". That's only failed me once. LIke I've said before, I just rarely have any sort of trouble in my games.

[Dragon29]

Now every once and a while I'll run across a guy (usually rotund, with a gravely voice and an angry gotee. You know the type.) who had his sense of humor removed when they were young. . .

This is hilarious!

But, I gotta ask - what's an "angry goatee'? I've worn a beard off & on now for more than 20 years, and it's never copped an attitude that I'm aware of.

[Thunderheads]

I don't start off a game as a typical, grumpy umpire. It's a game, played by kids. Nothing more, nothing less. My real job offers enough hair raising antics, that nothing on a baseball field gets me too excited. To me, this just ain't that serious. Oh, I know all the protocols and procedures, and nobody is going walk all over me. But in the end, it's just a game.

Me, I like to have fun. If I catch anyone getting too serious on the field, I know how to talk them off the ledge. Only five EJ's in 12 years will attest to that.

Now every once and a while I'll run across a guy (usually rotund, with a gravely voice and an angry gotee. You know the type.) who had his sense of humor removed when they were young. I can sense these toads early, and deal with them firmly. Thankfully they're rare.

So yeah, if I'm sayin' I need the catcher to work with me back there, it's by design. If a manager wants to squawk about balls and strikes, he'll get the ol' " That's enough". That's only failed me once. LIke I've said before, I just rarely have any sort of trouble in my games.

This is very important stuff here ^^^^^^^^^^^

You must remember that a coach with an attitude towards you is USUALLY derived from a previous experience with an umpire who wants to rule the world!! Umpires with attitudes suck, and don't get anything accomplished, and usually makes things worse.

YOU MUST BE APPROACHABLE, regardless of the sitch, you must be approachable. If you walk on the field and come across as a hard ass, your opportunity for issues is immediately escalated to a high level. Be nice, be courteous, smile, but be firm and professional, .... it works.

This situation would go like this for me: (embelished)

HC: Blue, ...here's that foul ball

ME; Thank you sir

HC: Are you gonna give me the edges today, I have got to have them.

ME: I'm sorry coach, what are you referring to?

HC: That one curve ball .... it looked aweful good

ME: [purposely] Which curve ball

HC: The one on the second batter

ME: Well coach, trust me, I'm not here to call 'balls' ...if that curve hit the zone, I'd call it, trust me [smile]

[kylejt]

Always call the coach by his first name. It's takes half the fight out of most guys when you do.

"Coach, we'll have none of that!"

Or

"Jim, are you kidding me?"

Call a guy by his first name, and he's not an adversary more. Just a guy, like you.