Balk Question

[persong]

This is gonna be difficult to describe, but here is a shot at it..

Lefty pitcher, R1. Pitcher is set, Lifts leg in pitching motion, kicks foot towards first then back towards his other leg (away from first) then throws to first. Is that a Balk?? He sort of did a leg lift, kick to first, very short pause then threw to first.. I called a balk on the play.

[noumpere]

This is gonna be difficult to describe, but here is a shot at it..

Lefty pitcher, R1. Pitcher is set, Lifts leg in pitching motion, kicks foot towards first then back towards his other leg (away from first) then throws to first. Is that a Balk?? He sort of did a leg lift, kick to first, very short pause then threw to first.. I called a balk on the play.

Find the rule that was violated and if you can then it was a balk and if you cant then their wasnt. There no magic motion that makes this kind of play a balk or not.

[mstaylor]

I would say no on the leg kick, possibly on the pause.

[Tyennie]

Wouldn't the initial "foot Kick" motion to first be the start of a motion to first, without completing the throw?

Much the same as a RHP who rolls his shoulder and doesn't throw. (This is a balk) Why not the OP situation?

[noumpere]

Wouldn't the initial "foot Kick" motion to first be the start of a motion to first, without completing the throw?

Much the same as a RHP who rolls his shoulder and doesn't throw. (This is a balk) Why not the OP situation?

Might be and might not be thats why I asked the first poster to find the rule. Many lefthanders kick the foot out and then swing it to the plate and thats legal.

[sdix00]

OK -

I am going to bring up a questionable concept.

Was there any intent to deceive, or any practical way to deceive,here? NO.

F1 made a motion to 1B and threw to 1B. No deception. Even if you have some sort of hesitation, I don't think it matters. If anything, F1 gave R1 an extra beat to get back.

Before anyone jumps on me about 'intent to deceive', check out the thread dedicated to this concept and you will see there are valid arguments to consider this.

[persong]

It was 2 moves in my opinion. the kick then the move to first. That was my view of what happened. The pause differentiated the 2 movements for me and that was my reasoning for the balk. It was a foot movement towards first, back then step and throw to first..

[mstaylor]

Sorry, I braincramped, no balk probably. The leg kick sounds fine, the pause is probably nothing because he was stepping toward first with his leg. Sounds weird but OK.

[sdix00]

It was 2 moves in my opinion. the kick then the move to first. That was my view of what happened. The pause differentiated the 2 movements for me and that was my reasoning for the balk. It was a foot movement towards first, back then step and throw to first..

I think we recognize that you have two moves here. It is important that, even though it is HTBT and the umpire of record has two moves, we may still not call the balk.

We have seen umpires call a balk for much less. Imagine, F1 in the Set, slightly pop his front leg, then throw two first. Hardly noticeable, right? BUT, it COULD be interpreted as an intent to deceive since F1 could throw home with the same motion.

In the OP, there is only one place to go, and he went there.

THAT SAID,

If you judge that F1 executed this double-move for the purpose of freezing R1, then threw to 1B to get the frozen runner. BAM! Ticket to 2B.

[mstaylor]

The hitch can still be legal, you have to watch the move as a whole. Deception has nothing to do with this balk, it is simply a mechanical balk. Deception is 1% or less of any balk. It is a tiebreaker for calling a balk, not a basis.

[Thunderheads]

This is gonna be difficult to describe, but here is a shot at it..

Lefty pitcher, R1. Pitcher is set, Lifts leg in pitching motion, kicks foot towards first then back towards his other leg (away from first) then throws to first. Is that a Balk?? He sort of did a leg lift, kick to first, very short pause then threw to first.. I called a balk on the play.

Wait a minute ...........

He's got to step towards first? This is almost a HTBT...you can't kick your foot to first, ...then back toward your pivot foot, then throw?

[Mr Umpire]

This is gonna be difficult to describe, but here is a shot at it..

Lefty pitcher, R1. Pitcher is set, Lifts leg in pitching motion, kicks foot towards first then back towards his other leg (away from first) then throws to first. Is that a Balk?? He sort of did a leg lift, kick to first, very short pause then threw to first.. I called a balk on the play.

Wait a minute ...........

He's got to step towards first? This is almost a HTBT...you can't kick your foot to first, ...then back toward your pivot foot, then throw?

Why not? The step still occurs b/c it is where the foot lands. I don't care if he makes a big circle with his foot before he lands. As long as it doesn't go behind the rubber and goes directly to 1B, he is fine. Many pitchers do the move described as I am picturing it.

[Ros@]

Dear All,

Help me out on this please as I have a question.

CAN YOU NULLIFY or REVERSE A BALK?

Killing me softly ..... please. :Horse:

[noumpere]

Dear All,

Help me out on this please as I have a question.

CAN YOU NULLIFY or REVERSE A BALK?

Killing me softly ..... please.

Sure if its a rules issue you can do it for example if theres a fake to first and one umpire calls a balk and another umpire knows that the pitcher was off the rubber the balk should be nullified and everyone put back.

[LMSANS]

Dear All,

Help me out on this please as I have a question.

CAN YOU NULLIFY or REVERSE A BALK?

Killing me softly ..... please.

Many years ago, I was in C (R2). F1 feinted to 2B. I called "Balk" and moved the player to 3B. Coach came out and asked if I could get help. I called my partner over and said "I blew that one. When we separate, I'm moving the runner back to 2B." My partner just said OK. And that's what we did. Everybody knew I was wrong, even me.

[midmoump]

What noumpere said. Here is a video example of the MLB guys reversing a balk:

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=13905969

-Pete