Get a load of this one.

[BT_Blue]

my whole thing is, why not grant the check swing appeal... The worst you can get out of it is another strike!

[Umpire in Chief]

my whole thing is, why not grant the check swing appeal... The worst you can get out of it is another strike!

Exactly!

[zm1283]

I talked to someone who went to an independent minor league game this summer and said that U3 ruled on a check swing from a RH batter when U1 was in the B position like some have posted in this thread.

As for 2-man, I've heard it both ways. I suggested on another forum earlier this year that the BU in A doesn't have a good look at a LH batter's check swing and EVERYONE jumped on it and said that you always give what you have no matter where you are and no matter if it's a RH or LH batter.

Next year I'm going to pregame this better and tell my partners that I'll come to them no matter where they are and to be ready if I ask.

[mstaylor]

Good idea, if you are met with resistance, just tell them that they are to give you what they have. If they aren't sure then just safe it. No harm, no foul.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I don't know why so many people think you can't see the check swing call from "A" with a left handed batter. I've never had a problem determining whether or not a hitter made an attempt to hit the ball, regardless of where I was standing. A, B, C, or D, it doesn't matter to me.

[nolanadair]

I don't think that the plate umpire should appeal to the base umpire if he is in A or B if it is a left handed batter. If I did not see him cross the plate with his bat, then I will make the bet that my base guy did not see it either.

[BT_Blue]

I don't think that the plate umpire should appeal to the base umpire if he is in A or B if it is a left handed batter. If I did not see him cross the plate with his bat, then I will make the bet that my base guy did not see it either.

But once again Nolan. Whats the worst that can happen? At worst your partner agrees with you and the pitch stays a ball. At best, HEY, you get an extra strike! I say whats the problem.

Now if you have to come to your partner on EVERY checked swing, thats another story... or if the appeal comes so late as to disadvantage the batter.

[nolanadair]

But once again Nolan. Whats the worst that can happen? At worst your partner agrees with you and the pitch stays a ball. At best, HEY, you get an extra strike! I say whats the problem.

Now if you have to come to your partner on EVERY checked swing, thats another story... or if the appeal comes so late as to disadvantage the batter.

I understand what you are saying. We all like strikes, but at Western Region when i was a student they taught us not to do that. So I am not going to go down to my base umpire when he is in A or B with a left handed batter or C/D (3 man crew for the D part) with a right handed batter.

I understand that as umpires we want strikes and outs. In my eight years of umpiring I have seen too many umpires doing what I stated I don't do above. Too many times the umpires say they went when clearly everyone in the park realizes that the batter did not go.

Thank you your input.

[frenchblue]

I understand what you are saying. We all like strikes, but at Western Region when i was a student they taught us not to do that. So I am not going to go down to my base umpire when he is in A or B with a left handed batter or C/D (3 man crew for the D part) with a right handed batter.

I understand that as umpires we want strikes and outs. In my eight years of umpiring I have seen too many umpires doing what I stated I don't do above. Too many times the umpires say they went when clearly everyone in the park realizes that the batter did not go.

Thank you your input.

Nolan,

that's not what they taught at Region. If the catcher asks the UIC for an appeal, no matter where the BU is on the field, the UIC can ask for help. Like BT_Blue said, if the BU agrees with the UIC, then alright. If the BU says its a stike, the game moves faster.

Region says that anywhere on the field the BU is, the UIC can ask for help....

Matt French

[nolanadair]

Nolan,

that's not what they taught at Region. If the catcher asks the UIC for an appeal, no matter where the BU is on the field, the UIC can ask for help. Like BT_Blue said, if the BU agrees with the UIC, then alright. If the BU says its a stike, the game moves faster.

Region says that anywhere on the field the BU is, the UIC can ask for help....

Matt French

Curt Parker and a couple of other instructors told me that what I posted earlier was right. Maybe I misunderstood them.

Thank you Matt.

[frenchblue]

Curt Parker and a couple of other instructors told me that what I posted earlier was right. Maybe I misunderstood them.

Thank you Matt.

I know that some of the veteran umpires do not like to ask for help if it is a RHH and the BU is in the C position...

I know Hollywood is a verteran umpire and that is why he may not like to ask for help, but I'm pretty sure Bill Carter (Western Region UIC) is teaching to ask for help whenever and wherever the BU is positioned...

Matt French

[sasmallen]

I know that some of the veteran umpires do not like to ask for help if it is a RHH and the BU is in the C position...

I know Hollywood is a verteran umpire and that is why he may not like to ask for help, but I'm pretty sure Bill Carter (Western Region UIC) is teaching to ask for help whenever and wherever the BU is positioned...

Matt French

According to the MLB Umpire Manual, Procedures and Interpretations referencing check swing appeals when the plate umpire has called the pitch a ball (p.87 (8.6), 2009):

"Under the Official Baseball Rules, the plate umpire has an obligation (my emphasis) to ask for help when the catcher or manager of the defensive team requests a appeal" This is also the case in MiLB even with 2-man crews.

I don't know about LL, but for OBR and HS games our association teaches that you should always ask the BU when requested by the defense (unless the team is taking advantage of this and asking on every single pitch you call a ball).

[noumpere]

I don't think that the plate umpire should appeal to the base umpire if he is in A or B if it is a left handed batter. If I did not see him cross the plate with his bat, then I will make the bet that my base guy did not see it either.

1) It's not your place to make that bet.

2) Whether the bat crosses the plate has only the slightest thing to do with whether he swung.

[BT_Blue]

According to the MLB Umpire Manual, Procedures and Interpretations referencing check swing appeals when the plate umpire has called the pitch a ball (p.87 (8.6), 2009):

"Under the Official Baseball Rules, the plate umpire has an obligation (my emphasis) to ask for help when the catcher or manager of the defensive team requests a appeal" This is also the case in MiLB even with 2-man crews.

I don't know about LL, but for OBR and HS games our association teaches that you should always ask the BU when requested by the defense (unless the team is taking advantage of this and asking on every single pitch you call a ball).

If I remember correctly, NCAA said that you must (or maybe should) go for help.

Once again, if I EVER work with anyone on this page, and I get asked to check a swing with my partner (as long as it doesnt come so late as to disadvantage the batter, ex. check swing on strike three past ball and the catcher asks about the swing after he goes and gets the ball). And when I ask you sure as heck better give me what you got... I dont have an issue if you change the call. Like I said, what could happen? I get another strike?

Nolan, I implore you to give this some thought. Dont sell yourself short and allow yourself to get as many strikes as you can.

What happens if there is a check swing and your partner is in C... the pitch is up and in and the catcher (this being LL and all) comes up and gets in your way.

Now lets say that this swing take the bat all the way in front of the batter's body but when the catcher clears your vision the bat is back infront of his chest... or worse pointed at the plate as part of his backswing.

Now the DHC wants you to check the swing, since you called the pitch a ball and got blocked out on what was a swing. You now refuse to grant the appeal to your partner. You have now lost a strike (possibly one that could lead to a big inning for the offense), your partner is wondering why you didnt come and ask cause he knows you got blocked out, and the DHC is now pissed at you cause you just "stole" a strike from them.

Think about it and I think you might just see our side of this and maybe decide to give it a try.

[mstaylor]

I routinely tell my catchers, if you ask, I'll ask.

[Umpire in Chief]

I don't know why so many people think you can't see the check swing call from "A" with a left handed batter. I've never had a problem determining whether or not a hitter made an attempt to hit the ball, regardless of where I was standing. A, B, C, or D, it doesn't matter to me.

Amen

I don't think that the plate umpire should appeal to the base umpire if he is in A or B if it is a left handed batter. If I did not see him cross the plate with his bat, then I will make the bet that my base guy did not see it either.

Don't get caught up in this myth...

[nolanadair]

I know that just because the bat does not cross the plate, does not mean he did not swing.

[BT_Blue]

Personally I like the NCAA guidelines (especially since its the only one that spells it out) but it says that it is a swing if the bat head passes the batter's front leg or if the batter is deep in the box, if the bat head passes the front of the plate it is a swing.

[noumpere]

Personally I like the NCAA guidelines (especially since its the only one that spells it out) but it says that it is a swing if the bat head passes the batter's front leg or if the batter is deep in the box, if the bat head passes the front of the plate it is a swing.

Personally, I hate that because you can have a swing without the bat crossing the leg or plate, and you can have the bat crossing the leg or plate without it being a swing.

[LMSANS]

It's a guideline, not a rule. It can be helpful in some situations but doesn't always apply.

[blue32]

I asked a MiLB umpire about this at an Evan's clinic last year to see what his take was on this. He said it doesn't matter whether he was in B or C, if he saw the batter attempt to strike at the ball, he would bang it. If he's good enough to accompany Jim in his clinics, then it's good enough for me.

[nolanadair]

The more I think about the more I feel I should change the way I think about the whole check swing thing. If the catcher wants me to ask the base umpire on a check swing, then I will go ahead and ask the base umpire, no matter where he is located on the field.

I was reading peoples responses, and I got the understanding that it does not really matter where the umpire is standing. What is the worst thing that can happen? The base umpire saying that he did not go. The best thing that could happen would the base umpire say he did go and we get a another strike out of the deal.

Thank you for all of your opinions regarding my posts earlier. They are greatly appreciated and have made me change my mechanics.

[frenchblue]

They are greatly appreciated and have made me change my mechanics.

Great :nod:

[mstaylor]

Just remember this crazy umpiring thing we do is a long learning process. When you feel you know it all, quit. I've been at it for 36 years and I'm still learning. It's a good thing to listen and learn, you will be a better umpire for it. Good luck. :Horse: