Another Cuzzi call ......

[Thunderheads]

Ok, ...I've said it numerous times before, ..... I'm just a small town , small association "house-hack" ....but I don't get paid the big-bucks!

This is bad, and ...is it just me, ...or is he WWWAAAAAAYYYYY too close to this play??

Discuss:

http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=14954163

[Guest]

Ok, ...I've said it numerous times before, ..... I'm just a small town , small association "house-hack" ....but I don't get paid the big-bucks!

This is bad, and ...is it just me, ...or is he WWWAAAAAAYYYYY too close to this play??

Discuss:

http://washington.na...ent_id=14954163

Not too close...there was no adjustment / reading of the throw. Refer to my comments in the other thread discussing the report Phil filed about the Nats GM

[amarillo]

Don't want to hijack this thread but I have a quick question

Do MLB Umpires go to any sort of refresher training or rules clinincs or anything like that.

Why go to one knee like that it instantly kills any mobility for overthrows and while we are at it look at the home plate guy he couldn't of helped if he wanted to...

[Guest]

Don't want to hijack this thread but I have a quick question

Do MLB Umpires go to any sort of refresher training or rules clinincs or anything like that.

Why go to one knee like that it instantly kills any mobility for overthrows and while we are at it look at the home plate guy he couldn't of helped if he wanted to...

1) As soon as you get to PBUC, they let you know one knee for plays at first is ok. Why- don't ask me, I wasn't there. He could've at least leaned one way or the other to try and get a better look

2) Manny Gonzalez is a call-up, a rookie call-up I believe. If Cuzzi asks for help, and the call is overturned, you will have the usual close-game overturned judgement call with an umpire right there SH*#storm on your hands, plus the added problem that it was a C-U who played star witness. Not saying this is correct philosophy, but I would bet that Phil was trying to protect MG by not going for help, and either thought he was right or knew he was wrong and decided to eat it.

[bpate]

Looks like runner jacked this one up by stepping in front of the bag instead of on the bag. Very difficult for an umpire to determine when runner hit bag on this I would think.

[bpate]

Hmm, Now that I watch again, do you have a 1st baseman who isn't on the base and a runner who doesn't touch 1st base?

[Mr Umpire]

Hmm, Now that I watch again, do you have a 1st baseman who isn't on the base and a runner who doesn't touch 1st base?

He touched the base. In fact, he did it correctly by going to the closest part of the base (the front edge) to touch it.

Simply, F3 was pulled off and U1 missed it. He was positioned right. But, even if F3 stays on the base, I have him safe. But, it was close and he made the call he saw. And, if he was standing, he would have more mobility but that is how they do it for the pros. Don't know why, they just do.

[Thunderheads]

Hmm, Now that I watch again, do you have a 1st baseman who isn't on the base and a runner who doesn't touch 1st base?

He touched the base. In fact, he did it correctly by going to the closest part of the base (the front edge) to touch it.

Simply, F3 was pulled off and U1 missed it. He was positioned right. But, even if F3 stays on the base, I have him safe. But, it was close and he made the call he saw. And, if he was standing, he would have more mobility but that is how they do it for the pros. Don't know why, they just do.

He was positioned right?

[Mr Umpire]

Hmm, Now that I watch again, do you have a 1st baseman who isn't on the base and a runner who doesn't touch 1st base?

He touched the base. In fact, he did it correctly by going to the closest part of the base (the front edge) to touch it.

Simply, F3 was pulled off and U1 missed it. He was positioned right. But, even if F3 stays on the base, I have him safe. But, it was close and he made the call he saw. And, if he was standing, he would have more mobility but that is how they do it for the pros. Don't know why, they just do.

He was positioned right?

Yes, he was 90 degrees to the throw. Standing or kneeling is a personal preference. Not mine. But, in his positioning to the origin of the throw, he was right. Maybe not on the call though.

[txump81]

Not sure if PU could have helped. I'm mobile so am going from memory of the play on MLB this morning. It looked like the throw pulled F3 towards the back of the bag and by fractions. JMHO.

[Thunderheads]

Hmm, Now that I watch again, do you have a 1st baseman who isn't on the base and a runner who doesn't touch 1st base?

He touched the base. In fact, he did it correctly by going to the closest part of the base (the front edge) to touch it.

Simply, F3 was pulled off and U1 missed it. He was positioned right. But, even if F3 stays on the base, I have him safe. But, it was close and he made the call he saw. And, if he was standing, he would have more mobility but that is how they do it for the pros. Don't know why, they just do.

He was positioned right?

Yes, he was 90 degrees to the throw. Standing or kneeling is a personal preference. Not mine. But, in his positioning to the origin of the throw, he was right. Maybe not on the call though.

Ok, ...I'll agree here, but , ....lets' face it, he was WAY too close to that ... yes ?

[Mr Umpire]

Yes, he was 90 degrees to the throw. Standing or kneeling is a personal preference. Not mine. But, in his positioning to the origin of the throw, he was right. Maybe not on the call though.

Ok, ...I'll agree here, but , ....lets' face it, he was WAY too close to that ... yes ?

No. The proper placement is approximately 10 - 15 feet from the base. Not sure of the exact numbers since I don't have a manual now but that is about right. He looks to be within that range considering he looks like he is about double the length of the F3 from 1B. I think he is right for the angle and the distance.

[mstaylor]

He is about right in positioning, he just got straightlined by a bad throw from F5. He doesn't tap the ball in his glove a couple of times he would have had him by a step or at least got the ball to the bag.

[dumbdumb]

Ok

If help is going to be given, who has the better look--the angle the home plate umpire has from 90 feet at 47: or the angle from the B position of the BU from 80 feet? Why are they asking for the plate umpires opinion who has a look from the opposite side of the bag from 90 rather than the BU look from 80 feet at the side of the bag??

Of course I am a proponent of the make your own calls, however, that being said, I am not saying you 100% will never ever get straight-lined in your whole career and therefor never 100% ever get help. With teaching from the guys like MST, this should rarely, rarely, rarely happen and that is always my point. Also, what I tend to see 99.9 percent of the time, is umpires who are absolutely in the "proper position-ie not straight-lined" to see the pulled foot, and they absolutely do see the foot as the player is stretching like in this play. They make their call and then they capitulate to the coach who asks to get help and throw the call on their partner. Of course most of the time the partner had to stay at the plate and could not even come up the line to get closer.

Then, once they ask, they run and hide when the coach starts giving their partner the business, rather than deal with the coach giving their partner a hard time, for the call they originally made before they capitulated to the coach and got help, (because they hear it is OK to get help on a pulled foot situation (just like the guys who never call a check swing a strike, even when the batter wraps the bat halfway around their body, and ask for help). They are trying to make themselves look good and get a good rating from the coach rather than sticking with their call and taking the consequences of a poor rating. They also do not help their partner and just let him suffer the consequences and possible ejection and poor rating, not to mention the possibility that the partner involved in overruling from a long distance, may miss the call himself, when the original umpires call was correct all along.

I have also seen that same type of umpire mentioned above, take complete control for his call (right or wrong) on a meek and mild coach who does not have much clout in their area, and who always has a poor record and poor team. But, with the coach who has more clout, or the coach who is always bending the assignors ear, or a hothead, they run for help at the drop of a hat.

[mstaylor]

Surpisingly the PU will probably have nothing, the only umpire that may be able to help is U3 from third. He was pulled off the back side of the bag, so it is possible the PU doesn't see definitively because he is looking through the actual base. U2 probably gets blocked by U1, so that leaves U3. Who in their right mind would go to him and what manager isn't going to lose his mind if it were to happen?

[dumbdumb]

Surpisingly the PU will probably have nothing, the only umpire that may be able to help is U3 from third. He was pulled off the back side of the bag, so it is possible the PU doesn't see definitively because he is looking through the actual base. U2 probably gets blocked by U1, so that leaves U3. Who in their right mind would go to him and what manager isn't going to lose his mind if it were to happen?

MST

oops meant to put :04 or :24 for 2BU at B position on inside in post 14.

Go to :04 or :24 and see U2 on inside of diamond. Although I am not going for help, I don't think he is blocked by U1. I figure he would be 1st in line for help rather than HPU, since he is on inside and not in outfield, and of course U3 from 127 feet or more is totally out of the question.

[Cactus]

Ok, ...I've said it numerous times before, ..... I'm just a small town , small association "house-hack" ....but I don't get paid the big-bucks!

This is bad

Another Cuzzi call.....this is bad.... You sure like to bash on guys. I paused the video at the point where the ball hit the fielder's glove and his foot was literally about 2 inches off the base. That's really not that bad.

I also wasn't sure of which other calls made by Cuzzi were so bad so I searched this forum for his name and only 3 other threads came up. One was about how good he handled something, another about his plate stance, and there was one about a call he missed back in 2009. I guess missing a call every couple years qualifies as making another bad call.

[mstaylor]

I hadn't watched it in a bit so i didn't remember U2 was inside. Yes, from there he probably did have a look. If he had been in the outfield the U3 would have been the best choice but you better be ready to dump somebody cuzz that ain't flyin'.

[mtnump]

Ok, ...I've said it numerous times before, ..... I'm just a small town , small association "house-hack" ....but I don't get paid the big-bucks!

This is bad

Sometimes I think we forget that with all the angles and slow motion and seeing it 3 or 4 times the calls get easier...we can become armchair umpires. He was there, in position and it was happening in real time. Not going to get them all right without replay and none of us want that...How many times on a post has someone said "the first time I saw it I had this, but now that I have watched it several times I have that."?

It wasn't the correct call, but it doesn't qualify even as worst of the week...IMHO

[mazzamouth]

Don't want to hijack this thread but I have a quick question

Do MLB Umpires go to any sort of refresher training or rules clinincs or anything like that.

Why go to one knee like that it instantly kills any mobility for overthrows and while we are at it look at the home plate guy he couldn't of helped if he wanted to...

1) As soon as you get to PBUC, they let you know one knee for plays at first is ok. Why- don't ask me, I wasn't there. He could've at least leaned one way or the other to try and get a better look

2) Manny Gonzalez is a call-up, a rookie call-up I believe. If Cuzzi asks for help, and the call is overturned, you will have the usual close-game overturned judgement call with an umpire right there SH*#storm on your hands, plus the added problem that it was a C-U who played star witness. Not saying this is correct philosophy, but I would bet that Phil was trying to protect MG by not going for help, and either thought he was right or knew he was wrong and decided to eat it.

I know you talk to Dave, But at PBUC they told us to not take a knee on plays at 1st, hands on knees or the standing scissors is the only way.

At the MLB level fine.

[mstaylor]

Don't want to hijack this thread but I have a quick question

Do MLB Umpires go to any sort of refresher training or rules clinincs or anything like that.

Why go to one knee like that it instantly kills any mobility for overthrows and while we are at it look at the home plate guy he couldn't of helped if he wanted to...

MLB umpires get video of every game they work, they get notes from the front office and they get evauled several times a year.

[Thunderheads]

Ok, ...I've said it numerous times before, ..... I'm just a small town , small association "house-hack" ....but I don't get paid the big-bucks!

This is bad

Another Cuzzi call.....this is bad.... You sure like to bash on guys. I paused the video at the point where the ball hit the fielder's glove and his foot was literally about 2 inches off the base. That's really not that bad.

I also wasn't sure of which other calls made by Cuzzi were so bad so I searched this forum for his name and only 3 other threads came up. One was about how good he handled something, another about his plate stance, and there was one about a call he missed back in 2009. I guess missing a call every couple years qualifies as making another bad call.

No Cactus, .... I'm just not afraid to comment on things like a lot of people. It doesn't matter what happens, there are some here that will defend ANYTHING that happens on the MLB field. Me, ...I just say what I see.

You're not looking good enough if you only saw 3 since 2009. Just last season he had a couple that were "bad" ...out of position, etc, etc ...

Since you only have 5 posts ... let me tell you that I post a LOT of videos on plays from the Bigs for discussion. I will look forward to YOU being one of those that will defend regardless of the situation. And, as I take a quick look at your 5 posts, 3 of them were here in this professional section directed at me. So you see, I was right, you ARE one of those guys. :shakehead:

[mazzamouth]

Don't want to hijack this thread but I have a quick question

Do MLB Umpires go to any sort of refresher training or rules clinincs or anything like that.

Why go to one knee like that it instantly kills any mobility for overthrows and while we are at it look at the home plate guy he couldn't of helped if he wanted to...

MLB umpires get video of every game they work, they get notes from the front office and they get evauled several times a year.

They only get a video of the Plate work.

[mstaylor]

They get more than that because I have watched some base calls shown by a MLB ump.

[jim knight]

Just a couple things to say to this whole thread... Never mind I will keep my thoughts to myself! No need to coment it would only make some people defensive... they might even tell me to not read if I don't like! Oh well... I can say this... I watch alot of MLB umpire work and I have seen alot of non-MLB work... give me the MLB guys! I have watched local guys that have no clue what to watch, where to be or how to act when a situation comes up.