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Thanks for the suggestions. Is this the same style @MadMax? Also, what about these Champro and Champion masks that are so cheap? Should I be wary of them?

Did the black not wear well, or you just wanted the different color? I'm strongly considering getting the black, but don't want to have to powdercoat it after a year. (Plus I'm dreaming of All-Star making a Deflexion-based mask - I really wanted to go with their new HSM, but decided to stick with masks, but I love their Deflexion tech.)

I bought my WindPacts used from Scissors. Hey @Scissors, how did you acquire those pads? Admittedly, @AL-UmpI have been trying to purchase these pads ever since they came on the market and I was about 5 minutes away from doing exactly that...buying the complete mask with pads and trying to re-sell the EvoShield frame and harness. I'm actually already a little disappointed with them. I was not aware how notched the front side of the lower pads are. From the look of the design, in my opinion, the manufacturer REALLY doesn't want these pads used in any other frame but the EvoShield. Heck, I even swapped emails with an executive at WindPact when I was trying to buy just the pads and the guy was totally shocked to hear that users will freely swap pads and masks because his first response back to me was (paraphrasing) Why would someone want to buy mask pads without a mask? When I explained to him that not only do umpire's and catchers like to experiment with different combination but, oh by the way, for our safety most manufacturers of this equipment recommend replacing the pads every 12 - 24 months depending on use, environment of use and environment of storage...his response was (again...paraphrasing), That's what makes their pads so great. They never have to be replaced! Right...sure...nobody will ever have a strap rip or rupture one of the air bladders by stepping on it or any other countless circumstances that would cause them to need replacement pads. You guys have been in the marketplace for 5 minutes and have this all figured out...it's your competition, in business for decades who don't know what they're doing... Maybe this is why 6 months after that exchange, WindPact has now seemingly "re-positioned" itself as a lacrosse equipment company...sorry for the rant, brothers. In the capitalist system, successful businesses still come down to 4 things...people, service, product and presentation. What we have here with these WindPact pads (and again, I haven't even strapped them up yet...) is a product with a great deal of promise and possibility who ultimately will be failed by poor people, service and presentation. Stay tuned to "Buy, Sell or Trade"...these WindPacts are competing against All-Star Mags; one with LUCs, one with leather. I doubt they will exceed that performance but, when you suffer from "Gear Acquisition Syndrome" (GAS) as I do, absent a brick and mortar umpire shop, you just don't know how something is going to work until you try it out... ~Dawg

Yes and no. The issue with the Adams/Diamond one is WHERE it hangs. Don't forget, originally masks never have the extention.

The real answer is hopefully that Force3 will research and develop its own skull cap for us with its own face masks. Sometimes when we mix manufacturers, we can make things work together...sometimes not. ~Dawg

Has anyone tried mag pads on another mask? I’m curious to see how they’d fit and look. I know Max has them in his AS 4000 Steel version, but was wondering if anyone tried these in a Nike/Adidas or something else. Thanks

Guys. To those who have send masks to Tony for repairs. He suffered a medical emergency on January 3rd. Here is the link for a fundraiser for him. https://www.mealtrain.com/trains/e37v7l/donate

You gotta strengthen up that neck, soldier! It's nowhere near as heavy as the Force3 Defender II HSM. Zat thing is tank! Helmet mask wears you! Seriously, though, the HSM has to be dense because it ain't supposed to move. The kinetic energy has to go someplace. Catchers can't have this thing spinning around on them, or bobbling about on their heads. High-amateur and pro catchers need an HSM that is secure, stable, and streamlined so as to allow for sighting, blocking and throwing. On that last point, the pro/collegiate wisdom is that the mask stays on. It's only in the amateur ranks (ie. daddy-coach) that the foolhardy directive is "get that mask off!" any time the ball is not in the mitt. I know what the advice is rooted in, but I absolutely do not endorse it. Not only are you tossing a $200+ piece of protective equipment onto the ground – with force – wherein it could incur damage, but you are removing a piece of equipment you may actually need on an errant throw or a play at the plate! Now, how does that apply to umpires? Umpires have two key differences of use from their catcher "house-mates" (see what I did there?): The first is that catchers are taught, instinctively and impulsively, to drop their chin to their chest. As such, there isn't much room for a dangling throat guard. By contrast, what are umpires conditioned to do? Keep their head (and chin) rock-stable and still! The second key difference is that we are still expected to take our mask off on any play once a pitch... is no longer a pitch ( best way of saying it?). We don't jettison it, but we still are expected to take it off and carry it with us on movements, rotations, and play judgements. So we tend to favor lighter, roomier HSMs... which, as we covered... these new, latest technology masks are not. If you're experiencing a lot of jaw pressure, it's because your chin is being driven into the very new, very stiff chin/jaw pad. You can either A) remove the pad and soften it up by putting it in a bag and then beating on it (that'll loosen the foam up), or B) loosen up the straps on the back plate. We as umpires are so eager to get our nose and eyes as close to the eye-slot as possible so we get a wide view that we reduce or eliminate that standoff distance that allows for a comfortable fit. Where the Deflexion tech would appear on traditional masks, if it was to, would be in the pads, not necessarily the frame. If they (finally) alter the structure of pads, that will be the mark of a paradigm shift in pads construction. It's incredibly forward-thinking. Team Wendy has their own, patented formula of foam; All-Star embedded an ABS plate in their pad; Force3 lined theirs with Kevlar. WindPact creates CrashCloud, and EvoShield & UnderArmour have built masks around it. What has Wilson done? If All-Star infuses Deflexion into traditional masks, then I cannot possibly explain why a professional umpire would ever wear anything mired in stubborn conventionality. I think a lighter material cage is completely unnecessary. Aluminum would be very much prone to shearing, and the welds popping, more so on a HSM than a traditional mask. Why? Because with the aluminum cage secured against an "immovable object" (the shell), the aluminum bears nearly the entirety of the force. That rigidity has to give up, at some point. Titanium is just too expensive, both to produce and to replace. The weight savings are marginal. I do admire how All-Star has reconfigured the bar layout. Welds are cleaner and better protected, the anchor points are further back... just the one, lone concern I have is that the cage is a still a "ball cutter"... that outer corner on the vertical bar is damned sharp, and practically destroys any baseball that hits it. For USSSA baseball, which is a pack of penny-pinching misers, this is a severe strain on the game.

I will go out on a limb and say this is going to be just like the Nike catchers masks. The only way to get them is to know someone. They have no interest in providing low volume products to an even smaller market.

Hi everyone, i am looking to upgrade my mask. I currently own the champro drigear hollow wire mask(18 ounces) as a initiation mask but i'm calling higher leagues so i might want to upgrade to a stronger mask. I am concerned about weight though, i would like to get a strong but light mask. I've been looking at the allstar black magnesium mask(17.3 ounces). To be honest i'm not really sure what material is strongest. Magnesium, titanium, steel. Money is not really the issue. Just need some advice from you guys when it comes to material and fitting. Thanks in advance. Yannick

I am looking at buying a mask but it is aluminum. What are your thoughts about aluminum masks? Do they hold up? Would you buy an aluminum mask?

This is how my first Nike Icon Steel met its end. MSBL 18+ game, 90+ mph foul-back right to the eye-port and caved it in. Had to stop the game, dash into the parking lot, and retrieve my spare. Always travel with two (at least) masks. Even HSM guys should carry a spare, inexpensive TM. What if your assigned-to-PU partner forgot his mask? Just lost it? Just broke his? What if you yourself get injured on Plate, such that you cannot continue? You can certainly loan your CP and shins, but mask? Not too easy (nor is it easy to loan a Personal Protector, thus I have a (sellable) spare). Yeah, it’s an absolute shame. What I’d love to do is locate the factory that has the planform and/or made them for +POS, and broker a new deal for them to produce them with new branding, with newly designed pads, and available in black, silver, gunmetal, sky blue… … … … and navy .

I did… but I didn’t. I use (EvoShield) WindPact CCs in my Rampage instead of stock. I considered LUC-Mags, but as @wolfe_man points out, the geometry is noticeably different between the two. If you compare the two frames, especially from the side, you’ll notice that the FM4K Mag is “jaw big”, looking like it has an underbite, like a bulldog. Whereas the Rampage is very “brow big”, with a very pronounced eye slot, and a tapering jaw/mouth area. This has everything to do with the design intentions of the two masks – as I routinely point out, which is a catcher’s company (All-Star) versus which is an umpire’s company (Champro)? So, the vaunted LUC-Mags pads get rather crammed into the Rampage, and don’t fit on yer face all that well. … … Of course, no post of mine would be complete without (yet) another shot fired into the carcass… and which “for umpires” company has done nothing to improve mask pads in over… iddaknow… 30? 50 years?

I tried it, the MAG is a bit of a different shape than the Rampage. I'm trying to find the old pic, but they're an odd fit if I remember correctly. I think it was a bit pinched in the chin area. The MAG chin pads are so full and large that they just fit odd in the Rampage. Personally, I think the WindPact (Evoshield version) are the best pads for this and most normal masks (read as non-MAG or F3) out there today. I really like the fit and feel of the WindPact's. I just wish you could buy them without the junk Evo frame. YMMV. I hope you can make it work. My top pads are: Evoshield WindPact AS MAG LUC Team Wendy

Wilson has these available on their site... I know some of you were looking for the flag and camo one for games on special days.

Greetings brothers, @Thunderheads, I'm not sure what the requirements are for a thread to get pinned but, perhaps this qualifies... THE FACTS: So, we have a potentially developing situation regarding the availability of WindPact Crash Cloud (WPCC) pads apart from their inclusion with the Under Armour mask. A few days ago, I sent a message into WindPact via their website expressing my interest in purchasing these pads separately. Today, I got a response from their "Chief Growth Officer". Currently, they are not offered. I replied that many umpires like to mix and match their masks with their pads to get a personalized setup but, we're missing out on WPCC's because we can't buy them apart from a mask. He asked if I was having problems with my WPCC pads because "In addition to offering optimal protection, one of the main benefits of our Crash Cloud technology is that it's "repeatable" and should not have to be replaced. However, I understand your personal preference and will investigate other customer feedback to understand the demand." I sent him a reply walking him through that traditionally pads should be replaced every 1 - 2 years depending on how much work an umpire gets and due to the pads becoming compromised with age, regardless of use. I strongly encouraged him to consider selling WPCC as an accessory because again, a lot of umpires I have spoken to are interested in the technology but, don't want to buy an entire new mask to get the WPCC experience. He said if they do start offering them, he will contact me again. SPECULATION: As I said on another thread, WP is a relatively new company and I think still learning a bit about the marketplace. I found the remark about their pads being repeatable and not needing to be replaced very curious. The UA was their first umpiring foray that I am aware of. I think it's very easy to make to a business decision when you have pads ready to go and UA comes to you and says we want to feature this pad in our mask and we'll take 1,000 or some other large number order. I think it's an entirely different business decision to say you want to make pads as an accessory and see how well they sell. Overproduce and undersell and you get burnt. Underproduce and oversell and you will miss sales as the market demand reaches to other options and may or may not circle back for that hot item that sold out quickly. We'll keep this thread going, of course. If anyone has anything to add or if you should come across these pads for sale...please do post the link on this thread. ~Dog

This past year, Wilson ended production of the Shock FX line of Hockey Style masks. While technically progressive, the unit represented a customer service headache for Wilson and a marketing dud when put up against the more sculpted, more rugged, and yet less expensive All-Star System7 series and Easton M series. With cages being bent by impacts, or the shocks becoming fouled up by constant frequent tossings or hurlings to the ground by catchers, more than a few were being sent back to be replaced by all-new units. At one time, Wilson did offer a replacement cage alone, but that option was quickly exhausted. Then, with a substantial portion of their production run going to replace returned units, the Shock FX wasn't generating a sufficient profit margin. Thus, last year, Wilson debuted the Pro Stock HSM, which is a great catchers HSM, as it is very sleek and looks like an even more sculpted and tapered All-Star System7. But where does that leave Shock FX users? As far as umpires were concerned, the Shock FX was a rather well-designed and accommodating HSM, offering very good viewing space and the critical stand-off distance – supplemented by the shock suspension – necessary for good forward protection. It wasn't too heavy of a unit either, all things considered, but did have some shortcomings that could have been addressed and remedied in subsequent versions. The leather pads would unfortunately retain oils and grime, and made laundering and cleaning a challenge; to their credit, Wilson did offer a replacement pad set (still may, but supplies are likely limited). Then, of course, no cage is impervious to the tremendous energy that a ball potentially carries, and the cages would get bent. Compounding this was Wilson's dalliance into titanium which, while lighter and thinner than steel, cost a substantial amount more and were "impossible" for Wilson and the average user to repair. So while Wilson was closing the line down, and supplies of replacement parts dwindled, the response back to users became, "Sorry, you'll have to purchase another one". Frustrating, to say the least. Especially when a retail Shock FX was $150 - $200 and a retail All-Star System7 was $115 - $150. Well good folks, that bent-up Shock FX can get a new lease on life. Mask-It can make repairs on the cages of the Shock FX, as the cage does remove rather easily. Two screws – one at the forehead, one at the chin – hold the cage in place, then the cage merely slides forward and free of its shock-&-spring suspension. Take note of how the parts are arranged, put them in a zip-lock bag or a jar, and then send the cage alone to Tony and his crew at Mask-It. The one they just did for @KenBAZ had a fairly large dent in the eyebrow region, and the paint was long gone to corrosion. Mask-It not only trued the mask back up, but filed the bar ends smooth (before, they were blunt and sharp) and gave it a powdercoat job in Liquid Gunmetal – one of the sexiest colors in their palette. Looks good as new, doesn't it? It came to $40, but it sure does beat trying to find and purchase a new one! Oh, I do recommend wrapping the four mounting posts in masking tape. I forgot to, and suddenly remembered an episode of American Chopper wherein powdercoat was applied to the sleeve mountings of the front fork, and they had to file and grind it off to get the fork struts in. Same thing here, I had to file the powdercoat off the four mounting posts so the springs and bushings would fit.

Tried it on and took photos: It's an exceptional unit, as HSMs go. Equipped with WindPact pads internally, it's easily the "most protective" HSM on the market. All-Star MVPs still have the edge on affordability, quality of construction, and geometry (All-Star is the most popular HSM in the professional and college games for a reason), but this EvoShield has it beat on internal padding. For some reason, which I can only surmise has to do with how penny-pinching, miserly cheap EvoShield's parent company is, the cage... is solid steel (and unnecessarily heavy). Oh yeah, EvoShield's parent company? Wilson. 🤨 Now, let it be known... the Wilson Pro-Stock is a decent, serviceable catchers' HSM. It's on par with any of the "frontline" catchers' HSMs – All-Star, Easton, and Mizuno. Well, the EvoShield Pro-SRZ HSM and the Wilson Pro-Stock share the same shell planform. However, while the Wilson Pro-Stock HSM is not a mask I'd recommend to umpires, it seems that the EvoShield shell was cast a bit larger / more voluminous so as to accommodate the WindPact pads – as such, the EvoShield can fit up to a size 8 hat size. The Pro-Stock can only do 7-5/8s, if that. And that's a tight squeeze, further aggravated because umpires are expected to take their masks on-and-off-and-on-and-off-and-on-and-off so freakin' much! Notice I didn't list the Force3 Defender HSM... it's not that it isn't a serviceable unit – it is! It's that its origin story is burdened by having to jury-rig the Force3 suspension springs onto an already-NOCSAE-approved shell (the V1), and due to this, the resulting fit never felt right or comfortable. This was remedied in V2, but here again, the unit becomes exceptionally heavy. This doesn't really affect adult professional catchers (or most physically fit amateurs, such as premier HS or College), but it does affect youth amateurs and umpires... who again, have a propensity for taking the HSM off-and-on far, far too much. * - Oh, and please pardon the photos... This was taken during the sh!tshow that was 2020, and it was inside a ... 🤨 ... sporting goods retailer who I will not be visiting again until they rescind on their policies.

No, nothing's wrong with it. Jim Wolf still wears his. I (still) think a significant component of who-uses-which-mask-when has to do with the endorsement(s) of MLB on certain brands / manufacturers. As we know, Wilson (still, dammit) is the official supplier of Major League Umpires. Nike is (now) the official supplier for Major League Baseball. So, Nike "Icon" Titaniums can certainly be worn with impunity, albeit I don't think any Umpire is going to wear the Nike -supplied gel-foam pads. Recently, too, Force3 received the official blessing and endorsement from MLB as an official facemask of Major League Baseball, signifying that Force3 and the mask's technology does have substantial, recognizable contribution to concussion mitigation / reduction. This is a huge windfall for Force3. The only complication to Major League Umpires is that the mask is demonstrably heavier than other "typical" masks MLBUs wear. Wilson Aluminums are being worn because they're just as light and just as strong, and if they do break, they're replaced "for free" (because Wilson is (still, dammit) the official supplier). I think (and sure do hope) that Steel Dynalites – those wretched, vinyl-dipped dinosaurs – are phased out and retired from production. Steel has its place, surely, but when compared to other masks on the market, and price being no factor (especially not to Major and Minor League Umpires), there is no reason to choose steel. That being said, Force3 (has to) employs steel in the Defender because of the complexity of build, and steel's ease at welding. There's been talk of employing Al or Ti, but I have yet to see physical evidence. I'd really, really like to see someone approach WindPact and include them in developing pads for traditional masks. We (the collective umpiring community) have given Wilson far too much latitude and leeway over the past 30 years, and they've done nothing to advance pads technology. Not a damned thing. When prompted, all they've replied with is – "get new ones every year". Granted, Force3 has included Kevlar in their pads laminate, and All-Star has a plastic(?) distributor plate in theirs (should be in the entire line, but that's my professional opinion), but no one else, besides WindPact, is doing any sort of serious developmental work.

BT_Blue what’s up my guy! The go to…. Is the Titanium! got that clean classic look. On the other hand, the silver dyna-alum. looks so sharp on the field as well but not the best if you like to keep the low profile. I do like to use my Blacked out black lol Wilson dynalite, with the sun visor, for night games bc it gets real warm behind the dish wearing that one when it’s hot out even with the memory foam pads. The visor also helps with the poorly placed lights that are on some fields, where it does it’s job perfectly for those late ones and blocks those damn lights enough that I don’t worry about seeing the little star spots when you blink, which would happen time to time with other masks when in the process of tracking a fly ball ya know. Hope that’s some good feed back! Thanks for ur comment friend! Ump, Nick

Hey Man! I loved it! But unfortunately I feel more comfortable with the Wilson mask, that one there in the picture (Evoshield) is actually brand new, never used, still have the tags hooked up and everything! I can send you some better pictures if you’re interested. And probably give you a really good price for it, bc I got it for really cheap and it’s just taking up too much space in my bag. To let me know, I wore my old one which was an all black Evo hockey for about 75 games last season, hands down the best HSM! when the ball makes contact with your head it doesn’t smack, it just kinda bounces off like it does off of the real good catches masks with the replaceable wrap around pads, that the guys in the show wear! Let me know And we can talk about a price I’m willing to do like $60-$70 off if you’re interested Blue! Talk soon. Ump, Nick

Just curious how many guys wear the throat protector on their masks. I just picked up a Wilson titanium and am considering one since the angle of the built-in guard is steeper than my old aluminum (which I did not have one attached). Do you prefer the 4" or 6" guard? Any recommendations on brand/model? Thanks to all.

And my biggest regret is not acquiring this Icon Titanal from you. For those recent to our U-E readership, Titanal is a proprietary name for an Aluminum+Steel alloy that brings the best traits of the two metals together – lightweight-ness and resistance to deformation of aluminum, with just enough malleability and “clean” welding of steel. Aside from (cast) magnesium, this Titanal is the holy grail of umpire masks.

Are these legit or a scam? All different sellers and locations, but I haven’t seen this many Nike steel masks in the last 10 years. It seems odd that so many come up at once - not to mention that all of them are WAY overpriced. I mean, we can get titanium ones for $300 shipped.

Looks to me like someone went from stealing bases to...[whips off sunglasses]...finding boxes of masks that ahhhh...fell off a truck. Know what I mean? ~Dawg