noumpere
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Everything posted by noumpere
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But in FED, if I remember correctly, the quality of throw is not taken into account? Correct On the play described (e.g., BR in fair, ball by the backstop) the quality of the throw does matter even in FED. If theres a throwing lane then use it; if theres not then the quality of the throw does not matter in HS.
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It was contrary to the rules but it might not have been in error.
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Correct call under pro and college rules. Likely correct under HS rules, but you could have just sent the runner back (if there was "no chance" to retire the runner)
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And a bad slide by the runner in not going straight to the bag -- If he had done so he would have been safe.
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Which is a complete contradiction from your earlier statements in this thread, as mstaylor has clearly pointed out that after tagging the bag, the guy then starts a new movement which causes him to lose control, yet you have somehow decided that this does not qualify as a voluntary release. You should probably make up your mind which way you want to argue this point before you continue. Don't worry, we'll all take a timeout and wait for you. My previous posts are numbers 16 and 42 and don't contain any contradiction as far as I can see. So either your reading comprehension needs improving or your quoting abilities need improving. Don't worry, we'll all take a time out for you to figure out which it is.
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You (meaning the OP) can find this exact play (with perhaps slightly different bases involved which doesn't matter) in the rule book 4.09 "How a team scores" last ruling: APPROVED RULING: One out, Jones on third, Smith on first, and Brown flies out to right field. Two outs. Jones tags up and scores after the catch. Smith attempted to return to first but the right fielder’s throw beat him to the base. Three outs. But Jones scored before the throw to catch Smith reached first base, hence Jones’ run counts. It was not a force play.
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in HS you can't be blocking before the ball gets there. Wrong. take this admittedly ridiculous play: R2, ball to the gap. As soon as the ball is hit F2 lies down right on top of the plate covering it entirely. When is it OBS? Immediately? As soon as R2 touches third? As soon as R2 commits to home? When R2 has to slow down / alter his path? When contact is made? As goldilocks would say numbers 1 2 and 3 are too early, number 5 is too late and number 4 is just right.
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Millimeters? What are ya, some kinda commie? Or Canadian? Or a scientist?!? I was going to say "nanometers"! I was going to say RCH
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Voluntary release can also mean "makes some other controlled movement with the ball not associated with the momentum of the catch / tag". So in your ridiculous play once the fielder starts jogging under control to the mound any release will meet the voluntary release portion of the catch. Now some will argue that the same criteria applies to the tag of the base or the runner or both and so they would have safe in the OP. Others will argue that it only applies to a catch of a batted ball. Since no one here I don't think sits on the rules committee at MLB or College or HS all we can do is go back and forth back again. Now if your in a rules position at your local rec league then go ahead and publish some interp for your league and use it there until and unless something else comes out. And for the record I would have safe on the OP but I understand where the others are coming from.
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2 Plays at plate from the infield ... position? Part II
noumpere replied to Thunderheads's topic in Professional
Play 1. Covered in many NCAA clinics. They want you to drop straight back to point of plate on plays from the infield. Too many umpires are jumping out to 1BX just as in this video. Play 2. Started in a good spot. Should have taken one step right instead of one step left. -
2 Plays at plate from the infield ... position? Part II
noumpere replied to Thunderheads's topic in Professional
I did wonder why he didn't. He said he was waiting for the OM to ask me to get help. And you corrected him and said that's a time to come in regardless of whether someone asks for help?- 9 replies
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- Angel Hernandez
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You cant tell for sure whether R2 was on the base or not when R1 was tagged but hes going to have to be CLEARLY off to not have R1 out. If the plays / tags are so close together like that you really don't have time to make the first safe signal. The mechanics were fine. Follow up with a safe signal for R2 if he had stayed on the bag.
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1. I don't know where else youd want him -- this is exactly right as far as I can tell. 2. Your allowed to take that play from the outside but I agree he could have been closer.
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F2 is blocking the pathway to home before having possession, ....it's OBS [not that I like the call, but that's a FED OBS all day] He was blocking the pathway sure but was the runner hindered before the catcher got the ball? Im not convinced that he was and Im generally giving the benefit of the doubt to "no call" on this.
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It's how he keeps track of the innings so he know when the game is over. Seems like a good idea to me.
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That's my take and even in HS he gave the runner access to the base right through the legs.
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That's a perfect example of being a plumber or being a detective. Shuoldnt have been called in my opinion.
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Here's the NCAA definition: (2) The flexible nylon windscreen-type fence is neither solid nor secure and presents a problem when determining if a ball is caught within the field of play. In such a case, caught within the field of play shall mean that the defensive player must have possession of the ball (legal catch) while inside the boundary of the fence. The catch CANNOT be made legally while the player's foot is stepping on, over or against the fence. All other rules pertaining to a legal catch shall be the same as Rule 2, definition of a catch. A.R. - A defensive player may touch or lean against the fence with the body or hands and make a legal catch even though the fence is pushed back, but may not push back or down with either foot. This rule also pertains to an out-of-bounds fence. Hard for me to tell whether the player's foot was stepping on the fence -- he clearly was leaning against it. in real time, Id go with a catch in all codes.
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If you were half as good as you think you are, youd be twice as good as you really are. Put that on your bumper sticker.
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These terms are not apposite. 'Tag play' contrasts mainly with 'force play', and is a play where the runner rather than the base must be tagged. See for instance the comment after 7.08e. In all plays, a TAG is part of it: indeed, the definition of a play is a tag or tag attempt on a runner. Now, if you want to say that the play in the video is an appeal play not a force play, you'd have a point. Still not relevant to the issue under discussion, but a point. cause the play in the video is an appeal play.. it is not a Force play.... So you think that there are different requirements in terms of holding on to the ball to make a "tag the base to get the out" requirement for each? It seems to me that the same criteria would be used for both (whatever that criteria is).
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I worked with an absolutely horses*** umpire yesterday. Unfortunately, I was by myself. lol.
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Sometimes you can use 9.01© but this is an instance of using 9.01(msu)
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Hes giving the voluntary release signal which clearly at least to me isn't correct. Whether you need to maintain possession thruout this play is among some disagreement between the experts with some (I think JR) saying know --just possession at the time the base is tagged and some saying still need to make another baseball play or voluntary release.
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Depends, but yes, it could likely be nothing. You need to decide whether F4 was hindered or just chose to let the runner by or decided to play the ball back. At all levels I do Im almost always going to choose the latter -- they know to just make the play as if the runner wasn't there and if something happens then a call will be made. Under OBR it needs to be intentional and with the purpose of preventing a double play which would be very unlikely I would think. 99% of the time just getting one out here.
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What is a surger? A type of sewing machine fyi google calls it a serger