JHSump

​It looked to me like the tag remained on the runner during the hand switch. F5's arm and hand appeared to be moved by the sliding runner. But I agree that all these details are very hard, if not impossible, to see in real time.

Looked like the runner touched 3B with his right hand, before the tag. But then he continued to slide, right handing coming off the bag, then left hand contacting the bag, while the tag remained on him. These are details not so easily seen in real time. MLB wanted slo-mo reviews. They got what they wanted. Maybe.

And, in addition, try this: watch how the catcher catches the pitch. If the catcher is not not set up outside and he does not do anything radical to catch the pitch, like reach way outside, then the pitch is probably not beyond the outside corner. Use *all* the information available to you in judging balls and strikes, not just your judgment of where it crossed the plate. This advice means you have to see the catcher's mitt when he catches the ball, and it means you have to reserve judgment until the pitch has completed its entire trip to the catcher. Waiting and accumulating all the evidence will help you. Once I started incorporating the catcher's reception of each pitch into my judgment, calling balls and strikes became much easier. Working from the slot will not be a problem. (And, for safety reasons, at least, you should work from the slot. Placing your head dead center over the plate is a recipe for concussions.) If you think a pitch you called a ball was really a strike --- as you seem to be doing --- that may be a sign your timing is wrong: you are not waiting long enough to collect all the information and make a conscious decision. Watching the full flight of the pitch, including how the catcher receives that pitch, will help with your timing. And remember @Maven's first rule: Call more strikes! If you wait, and watch and decide after it's all over, you can consciously judge which pitches are borderline (as you seem to be finding), and then call those pitches strikes also.

I forgot to mention: 8) None of the umpires used an indicator...no base umpire...not even the plate umpire.

Sorry, you are right. Those were not force outs.

My family and I attended a Reds-Padres game last night, in Cincinatti. Of course, I spent at least as much time observing the umpires as anyone/anything else. (And, I knew all the umpires' names, but only a few of the players names. "You know you're an umpire when..."). We sat on the 1B side, just beyond 1B, about 150 back from the field. The crew was Paul Nauert (HP), Ed Hickox (1B), Mike Estabrook (2B), and Dana DeMuth (3B). Here are some observations. I just thought I'd throw these out there in case anyone finds them interesting. 1) The umpires were all very relaxed looking, slow and deliberate in their movements. 2) Nauert never rushed a strike call. He was very deliberate in everything he did. He looked very relaxed. But I never saw him stray from concentrating on the proceedings, except perhaps between innings. Even his strike mechanic (a hammer) and called strike three mechanic (a bit of a chain saw) were deliberate and not rushed in any way. 3) Hickox took a very long time to call force outs at 1B. I could see him watch the foot and bag, then look at the F3's glove, then call the out. He was very deliberate and not at all rushed in any of this. But he was very quick on a line drive that missed being foul by a foot or so down the right field line, turning quickly, crouching a bit, and putting up his hands after the hit the ground outside the 1B foul line (then he took his time to eventually point foul). 4) DeMuth quickly called a tag plag at 3B on an attempted steal --- the quickest call and movement I saw from any of them. From where I was sitting I could not tell if the call was correct, and there was a short wait as the Reds must have considered asking for a reply review. But a review never happened (I wish it had as I have never seen one in person). I watched a slow motion video replay later and he was dead-on correct, of course. 5) Between pitches, etc., the umpires were alert, but nonchelant in their stance, movements, etc., very much like the players. If it were not for their uniform differences (and age differences), you could easily believe all the people on the field --- players and umpires --- were cut from the same cloth, but just doing different jobs. 6) The umpires greeted and were greeted by numerous players and coaches, with points, shakes of the hands, short conversations. This was the first game of a series between the two clubs. Generally everyone seemed to get along well. Even when the game ended some of the players exchanged "so longs" of sorts with the umpires. There were no arguments, so I did not get to see a different view of the relationships. But things seemed very cordial and relaxed. 7) F4 for Cincinatti made a spectucular play with a behind the back flip to his F6 to start a DP. After the play Estabrook smiled and exchanged a word or two with F4, and F4 patted Estabrook on the back as he passed him by. In replays, or on this site, we tend to see many of the "rougher" interactions between players/coaches/managers and MLB umpires. But I found it pleasant to see a game played without animosity between the two baseball teams and the "third team." Videos are available of some of these events, of course, at the MLB website. I took some pictures of the umpires, but they did not turn out great since I was not close enough and I was just using my cellphone. Otherwise, I'd post a few.

When you are first starting out it is common to think you need to accept these behaviors as "part of baseball" and to think that "it is your fault" when you are not totally accepting. Yes, these behaviors are part of baseball, and yes, how you react is up to you. But, there are limits to what you should accept. As has been said, Ignore, Acknowledge, Warn, Eject. And, all 4 may occur at once if the behavior is egregious enough (it sounds like these behaviors are not egregious enough). Don't be a doormat. Don't be a red-ass. Finding the right balance is a matter of experience. As in Verbal Judo, think of working the games with these coaches as learning experiences or challenges. At the next such game, try the Ignore and Acknowledge (stare). If that works (stops the actions), fine. If not, advance it to Warn. That may work fine for that day. Practice your exact warning before the game (the suggestions above are great). Don't walk over to the coach. Don't call him out to you. Just calmly warn him from your position. Keep you mask on if you are PU. Don't escalate it. Let him do so, if he chooses. Say things calmly. Of course, if he proceeds to berate you after the warning, give him the ejection he wants. But be calm and don't use a large ejection mechanic. Let him be the aggressor and appear to be over the top. Practice the ejection in advance. It is very likely he will be surprised you ejected him, if you do so. Don't talk with after that. Ask the remaining assistants who is the next HC. The assistants will probably look very humbled, especially if you made all this look calm on your part and the HC was the aggressor. If the ejected HC is still hanging around (e.g., behind the fence), calmly tell the new HC that the ejected HC needs to leave the field. It is common for an inexperienced HC to hang around, until they find out what that the ejection means they have to leave. Let the new HC handle it, and don't restart play until he does. If you end up going all the way with an ejection, and you were calm and business-like, you may find that the ejected HC acts more respectfully the next time you have him. That has been the case in my experience. Don't bring it up with him at any other game; don't entertain any other discussion of the ejection in the future. Every new game is a fresh start for him, and you.

@scrounge I agree. And, I do OBR-based games at lower levels than HS (down to 10U!), where the OBR ruleset is augmented with MC and "slide or attempt to avoid contact" rules. I have had a manager in such a lower-age game ask on a similar play (to the example in this thread) if I should call his R3 safe because of 7.13. And to confuse the issue more, the 2015 version of the rule says obstruction has to have occurred to call the runner safe. I don't see obstruction occurring in this play since F2 had the ball and R3 did not appear to alter anything about his approach to the plate prior to the ball arriving and the tag being applied. From the online 2015 OBR (in the 2015 book the rule is 6.01(i)): Rule 6.01(i)(2) Comment (Rule 7.13(2) Comment): A catcher shall not be deemed to have violated Rule 6.01(i)(2) (Rule 7.13(2)) unless he has both blocked the plate without possession the ball (or when not in a legitimate attempt to field the throw), and also hindered or impeded the progress of the runner attempting to score. A catcher shall not be deemed to have hindered or impeded the progress of the runner if, in the judgment of the umpire, the runner would have been called out notwithstanding the catcher having blocked the plate. But, I am unsure of exactly how to handle this rule in the OBR-based games with MC and "slide or attempt to avoid contact" rules. How are folks working doing this in such games?

@UmpIowa I'd say you had one umpire (you), *minus* at least 0.25 umpires (Mr. Cardinals hat's umpiring contribution), for a total of no more than 0.75 umpires. Better to have just done the game solo. Given this story, if I were in a similar situation, I'd (a) say I'd do it solo, and Mr. Cardinals hat can watch from the stands, and (b) tell the TD to never ask me to do such a "favor" again. And, I must say, your restraint in the situation was amazing.

Oh my! That "normal" windup position and pitch is interesting! As @ricka56 said, it makes the Fed rules look sensible.

Are there any other videos of this F1's "windup position and pitch." It might be interesting to compare what he did in the current video with what some of you are referring to as his "normal windup position/pitch."

@maven lol

The runner did not appear to me to alter his approach in any way before the ball arrived. He game in straight, sliding head first. There is no rule disallowing head first slides in this organization (Nations Baseball). The only slide rules are "If a runner slides, he or she must slide directly into the bag" and "Runners are never required to slide, but if a runner elects to slide, the slide must be legal." Yes, it's "slide or *seek* to avoid contact," of course. The full rule is "If a tag play is imminent, the runner should slide or seek to avoid contact. Jumping over a player is not considered avoiding contact." I was just giving the rule a "title" --- an inaccurate title at that. My apologies. Thanks for making the record correct, @Rich Ives. And, it did sound to me like he had it called somewhere before. Anyway, my original question still stands for anyone who has had other experiences.

For those of you doing amateur baseball based on OBR, have you had 7.13 (now 6.01(i)) come into play? What is your assessment of the effect of this in your amateur OBR-based games? Note that the 2015 rule is different from the 2014 rule, in some respects. Furthermore there are MC rules and "slide or avoid" rules in most amateur OBR-extensions. I had this come up at a very recent travel ball tournament (OBR with extensions). A manager asked me between innings if the rule should have warranted my calling his R3 safe on an attempted squeeze. No, I said, since R3 was not obstructed. The ball arrived before R3. R3 was tagged on the hands during a head-first slide reaching toward the plate between the widely spread legs of F2, and F2 was just in front of the plate. The manager was not satisfied with my explanation, saying they had had this called on them. But he walked away, saying "look it up". I ignored that last remark. The 2014 rule is at http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2014/official_baseball_rules.pdf The 2015 rule is at http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2015/official_baseball_rules.pdf

Indicator battles: I know I should just turn away, but I keep looking!

@ZebraStripes that looks and sounds exactly like what I had a few weeks ago. A varsity F2 let a far inside pitch go by. My forearm/wrist area swelled up immediately and I could not work the indicator. X-rays the next day showed no break, and, it's funny, I felt immediately better! Then my arm turned many colors over the next week or so. As I look at it now, there is still a little bit of a bump there. So, I know what you are going through, brother. I hope you feel better soon.

Is the wording different also? Or are the rules just rearranged and renumbered?

Congrats! Will there be a video?

Now, that's a radical shift. Anyone catch the team name (on the jersey)?

HS varsity game last night. I had the plate. It was lopsided from the start. VT scored 6 runs in the top of the first. They kept hitting or putting the ball in play. HT scored zero in the bottom (three up, three down). In the top of the second, HT pitcher is clearly frustrated (more runners, more runs). After I call a pitch a ball, he motions his F2 to come out and meets him halfway, then starts jawing at me, "How can you call outside pitches when you are inside like that?" (Must have been referring to my being in the slot.) F2 starts wrestling with F1 holding him back (I think this was not all that necessary --- F1 was not coming at me.) HTHC immediately calls time, which I grant, and he removes his F1 from the game. F2 apologies to me when he gets back to the plate; HTHC apologizes between innings --- and says I should have tossed F1. Frankly, it all happened so fast, I was still taking in the spectacle of it all before the coach asked for time. From the question to my calling time may have taken all of 5 seconds. Perhaps interesting info: I don't regret not tossing him, and I think the coach was spot on reacting immediately and removing his F1. My questions to you: Should I have tossed him? I would have had to pull the trigger almost immediately after the "question" from F1, or upon the start of the "F2/F1 wrestling match." And, under such circumstances or similar circumstances how much rope do you give a HS player? Not a peep was heard the rest of the game. Final score 15-2 on mercy rule. Coaches from HT shook my hand as my partner and I were trying to exit the field.

​@basejester I am with you on this one. While the police officer is still a police officer when off duty, his wearing the uniform to coach a game (complete with sidearm, pepper spray, and presumably his hat) projects a degree of power that is beyond the natural state of things on a ball field. Everyone involved might be unnecessarily intimidated. Maybe some umpires would be fine with it, but how can you know everyone else is fine with it? Doesn't his wearing the uniform give him a possibly unfair advantage in the contest, even if just psychological? Aren't we as umpires supposed to prevent either side from having an unfair advantage? (I enjoyed your list of other uniforms to consider. You make a good point. It's even funny to consider the possibilities.)

@BuckeyeMike that the runner may have given up b/c of Joyce's call of OBS is a possibility. If that happens is the "lesson" here that we fix it? This is all very interesting. @ricka56 your comment is also very interesting. Whatever was decided, it would be nice to know what the umpires discussed.

I have to say I am confused by this result. If they ruled Type B obstruction, and protected him only to 2B or back to 2B, then would he not be out as he was tagged walking to 3B? How is this different from what occurred to Miguel Tejada back in 2003? Here is the video: Look at "Blunder 33 Rally Killer" Look

What we need is a volunteer to compare the shock doctor and the nutty buddy --- using one of those baseball-on-a-golf-club-shaft things. Anyone? Post videos.

Wow, this league should remove this "relaxation" of the dress code for managers and coaches. There is no excuse for it. The players are expected to show up in uniform, which means some parent had to make the time to get kid there, in uniform (I'm assuming this is a youth league). Aren't the coaches supposed to set a proper example? Do the coaches show up from work 5 minutes before game time? Is that appropriate coach behavior, on it's own? Even then, switching to a t-shirt in the parking lot would still be possible. If the coaches show up 30 minutes before game time, there is plenty of time to switch to a team t-shirt. Am I missing something? Meanwhile, a number of my partners are police officers. None of them have ever showed up to umpire a game in their police uniform(!), sidearm or no sidearm. Furthermore, they show up at least 30 minutes before game time. For that matter, none of them have showed up in police uniform and changed out in the parking lot (or anywhere else at the ballpark). If my partners can handle this properly why can't this coach do so? I should ask my partners what they would do under the circumstances described in the OP. My guess is that regardless of the dress code for coaches, this "difficult" coach will show up in police uniform anyway. Good luck with that.