SoCal Lurker

So . . . if (and of course it would never happen to anyone here . . . ) you somehow don't notice that there are two runners at first and call "time," I presume since the lead runner can't acquire 3d during the dead ball, that the trail runner would haver to return to 1st before the ball was put back into play, right?

thx- that was really my question whether a team *had* to accept a base award, or was simply *entitled* to the base but if they didn't take the base they were entiteled to could decline to advance.

Absolutely.... (but isnt Pinto 5-6 yr olds? and coach pitch?).....................that being said......I got no tolerance for profanity at that level.......gone....... i think there 8 & 9 yrs old.. def not 5 & 6. either way, i'd had enough. Pintos is the little dues . . . Bronco is 12U, Mustang 10U, and Pinto should be 8U.

Huh?? Run does not score under LL rules. Runner is out. 7.08(1)(3) says a runner must slide or attempt to get around the tag of a defender with the ball; if he doesn't, he's out.

It's on the books for our league, but written so I can't tell if it is official PONY or a local rule . . . but I've never seen it enforced nor anyone complain that it wasn't . .

Any Manager, Coach or Player that ignores a legal instruction from an umpire is subject to ejection. I'd start w/the Manager and if the runners didn't get it by the time he was gone, . . . . whoosh! the manager tries to be sporting by declining a base award caused by a horse's nether region, and you're gonna toss him instead of telling him he's not allowed to make that choice?!?!? Seriously?!?!? The team doesn't want to win in that chicken-$hit way, and you're not gonna help support the sportsmanship by helping look for a way out?!?!?

Yup -- and a one game suspension is 1/162 of salary = .6% -- just multiply games as needed. . .

Curious aside. Let's assume we live in a universe whre the OHC if offended and appaled that some @#@#$# in the fans was interfering with his team's effort to win the game honestly, and he tells his runners to stay put -- can he do that, or are runners awarded a base required to advance the base?

Due to too many of these events, the field my son plays at (PONY Broncoe - 12U) added a net that goes out over the plate (maybe 20' up?). I think at least 3 pop outs a game become fouls when they hit the net. . .

Might depend on game situation, including who the batter was, and who was on deck . . . granted, of course, that an IBB could still get you back to the same as taking the CI . . .

I'm completely with you until I get to what Imarked in red: if the catcher didn't catch it, how does common sense get us to anything other than treating it with the same result as a foul ball? (Or are you just saying it's a judgment call and an umpire that exercised that judgment would not wrong by rule because it is a judgment call?)

IMHO (very humble here as a baseball daddy and soccer referee but not an umpire) these are two quite different statements, and which he said matters. I can see letting "cost" slide, but I would think using "you" and "cheat" in the same sentence would be ba-bye every time. Curious how the more experienced umps here feel about that.

Does LL auto-suspend managers/coaches on ejs?

On unlit fields, I'm curious how you decide when to call for darkness? Was at my son's game last night where the game continued as it was graying out. In my opinion it should have been called sooner than it was. (And I'm positive that I was totally unaffected by the fact my son's team was up by one run. Well, seriously, I thought there was a fly ball that the outfielder really couldn't see well enough to play.) But it really made me wonder what the right standard is and how you know wnen you get there? Curious what experienced umps do.

Doesn't a protest make it easy? Then you have to get together and discuss, right? Sems to me (a non-umpire) that this is only diifficult when there is not a protest and you're tyring to figure out if your partner is having a brain spasm. (Which seems to me to make a sbutle I-have-info-you-might-want signal useful.)

Not to derail the conversation too far, but have you offered to help teach them? When I'm coaching (which I'm not currently), yes. When I'm helping with my son's team at a practice or at a game, yes. But kinda hard to but in and tell opposing coaches how they should be coaching their kids (though I have mentioned it in one or two instances where I knew the coach and knew he'd take it in the spirit of teaching (whcih it was) and not think it was gamesmanship).

Kinda odd because around here most of the HS dugouts offer very little protection since since they are more like MLB style dugouts I was at a cactus league game last week, and was surprised to see a protective fence in front of the dugouts . . . don't recall ever seeing that before in a pro setting.

Follow up Q. So you have two runners on second base. Time is called. Does the trail runner have to go back to first before ball is put back into play, or can play be restarted with both still on second? Follow up to the follow up: If you were aware that there were two players standing on the same base, would you grant time?

So who's watching R2 touch 3B? Who's watching R3 touch home? If R1 only, who's watching the continuing action at 2B? If I can help, I will. But don't yell at me across the diamond. Make your call and if you're unsure AND the coach comes out and questions it, we'll huddle and talk. That way, I can say, "Sorry, R2 was rounding 3B at the same time and I had to make sure he touched. By the time I turned back to 1B, the play was over." I might even be able to tell you the foot was pulled. However, yelling at me across the diamond gives the impression that I didn't do my job. I always laugh at this line of reasoning. In a 2-man crew, you cannot possibly have perfect coverage. Stuff is going to get missed. You cannot see every single touch of a base, tag-up, etc. perfectly. You have to draw a distinction between what is the most likely thing to happen, and what is the most likely to cause trouble in a game. I can't even REMEMBER the last time I called a runner out for missing a base. Seriously, it's been 10 years or more. A pulled foot is an every game, or at least every-other-game, occurrence. You can be damn sure that in a 2 man crew, with limited coverage, I am going to be watching for the MOST LIKELY thing that could make life difficult for my partner, and by extension, our crew as a whole. If you don't like it, tough. Want perfect coverage? Then hire 4 umpires and we'll have a guy sitting right there at every base and we can see every single base touch perfectly. Once you start cutting umpires, coverage is naturally going to suffer at least a little bit. The wise umpire knows what to comprise in order to provide the best possible coverage while skimping on areas that are less likely to arise and/or have less importance. It's the difference between knowing what the book says verbatim, and how to actually call a game. but with only one you should see everything! I watch my son's games, and F5s routinely (and obliviously) impede the runner at third base, typicaly by standing on it when no play is coming . . . but not gonna get called in a one man game, so I just sigh and wish the coaches were teaching them better (and ponder in the cynical part of my mind whether a couple of the coaches might be teaching them to do this in the knowledge it won't be called . . .) Parentx are awlays going to want the calls to be made right for their little Johnyy . . . and that's what they are watching even whenit is the 7th or 8th thing on the umprire priority list . . . same for all youth sports . . .

Dare one hope that a coach might think that imprudent and think more about the kid and his arm than about the next game?

So if F2 is westing a two piece mask then its only 10-15 games? Thats just silly!I agree with a previous poster. Go the NCAA rule. And don't give me "it happens at other bases too". When was the last time you saw someone cross-body block a guy at second? Last one I can think of was Albert Bell v. Fernando Vina. And that was, what, a decade or so ago?Also look who the managers that are for and against this play. Against: Bochy and Mathey, both former catchers. For: Larussa and Francona, both not former catchers. Scioscia, a former catcher, opposes a change. Yeah, but when Mike played, the players weren't as big/strong/fast. MLB average is like 6'-2", 215lbs, with a 6.5 second (or better) 60. We're talking farmers -vs- freight trains. Mike played against Bo Jackson, at least in an All Star game . . . I don't disagree that players are getting bigger and that means the collission could be worse -- my only point was to respond to BT Blue's point that it seemed amongst the managers former catchers were on one side and everyone else on the other . . .

Exactly right -- it's supposed to be saved for new post titles

So if F2 is westing a two piece mask then its only 10-15 games? Thats just silly! I agree with a previous poster. Go the NCAA rule. And don't give me "it happens at other bases too". When was the last time you saw someone cross-body block a guy at second? Last one I can think of was Albert Bell v. Fernando Vina. And that was, what, a decade or so ago? Also look who the managers that are for and against this play. Against: Bochy and Mathey, both former catchers. For: Larussa and Francona, both not former catchers. Scioscia, a former catcher, opposes a change.

And it's not used once they are "really" playing baseball. It's an imperfect rule to deal with imperfect play and trying to make sure both teams get to bat. It's not "unfair" as the rule applies equally to both teams. I'm not a huge fan of the rule, but I have seen games where my only reaction to the rule was "thank god they have that rule or thiis would be more painful than it is . . ."

Of coures not. As every coach knows, the best view of the stike zone is from his dugout . . .