Why can't he just TELL HIM ???

[mstaylor]

In the video he plainly showed foul tip three times. The batter starts yakking, manager comes out to keep him in the game. By doing so he knows he is going to get run, that's the rule, but that's his job.

[HokieUmp]

I think it's obvious what West had -- the batter foul tipping the ball.

No one is disputing that he called it that way. The dispute was whether or not it was correct.

But since it's not just a judgement call, but a judgement call on balls and strikes, does the last part of your post really matter?

We can debate the semantics of Gardenhire "screaming" or not - I happen to think that's his default mode once the game starts - but even that's not relevant. He comes out to argue a strike call, and is ejected. In fact, telling him not to come out is pretty much a courtesy to keep him in the damn game. (Of course, if it's top-9, does he REALLY want to stay?)

And as it's been said before - who's going to "give help" on that one? The batter? I'm SURE he'd be a paragon of honesty about it.

[HokieUmp]

I love this site, but it really irques me when [not YOU necessarily dumbdumb] but in general, most people side with whatever the pro does on the field. I really bugs me. And, for some reason, ...no one is reading what I'm writing. So, ...please ...pay attention:

Did I say he shouldn't have tossed him? NO

Did I say he should have kept the player and Gardenhire from getting upset? NO

Gardenhire comes and asks ...you can see him.... "Joe, ...Joe" ..... Take a couple steps towards Ron and say.... Ron, stop right there, ..I have a foul tip, and I"m not asking for help .... just TALK to him for a second, ....instead of just standing there ...

Nothing Dale Carnegie about it

As MrUmpire's already explained, the answer to "could he have done it differently?", at that level, is "no." (Another point left unmentioned is, on his best day, Gardenhire is like (as a phrase I heard as a kid) "a bear with a sore ass." Which, to me, probably gives even LESS room.)

And although I'm HS and below, and it's not the same show, I don't know that I'd go into a discussion. If I signaled a foul tip _3_ times, there's no way I'm bothering to explain that to the hothead coming to argue - especially when the HC in HS ball is at the 3rd base coaches box already. He's not paying attention enough to see that, 'eff him. He'd get a "don't leave your position to argue balls and strikes," and then a hook. And since I tossed a LL Majors coach last year for counting, I think I'd give about the same amount of rope even at that level.

Besides, what is there to "talk" about? Gardenhire certainly knows the rules well enough to know he shouldn't be out there. He's trying to save his batter, and have the side benefit of taking a shot at the umpires.

[mstaylor]

This a very ordinary baseball play that has played hundreds of times in the past. Umpire makes the call, player objects, manager comes out to protect him. He knows if he doesn't go out and get tossed then his player is going to be. The only thing that makes this even notable is it is Joe and the announcers tried to interject himself into the conversation with six tons of misinformation. Which is a nice way of saying the talking heads were spouting more crap and once again proving they nothing about what they are announcing.

[yawetag]

I think it's safe to say that if it weren't Joe West or his crew, we wouldn't have a thread discussing it at all.

[dumbdumb]

Yes, Joe could have done it differently. He could have capitulated to Ron and gone and asked for help, which would have played right into Ron's hands of checking and getting help on everything, even when you should not get help. Ron knew exactly what was going on and that there was an excellent chance he would get ejected. However, he wanted to back his player and wanted to make sure his player did not get run complaining to Joe. Pretty much cut and dried ejection here. Everyone did what they felt they had to do. No big deal whether it was Joe or anyone else who might have had to run Gardenhire. This just happens, and it is just part of the game. Gives everyone something to talk about, doesn't it?

And yes, I realize no umpire is perfect, just as players and managers are far from perfect. Once again, all umpires are being highly scrutinized for their performance each game. There are several categories, which were mentioned by Solomon in an article about how they evaluate umpires for post season assignments, before baseball took him out of that position. Joe and the other MLBU are being evaluated each and every game on their performance, and those with the best scores will be offered post season assignments.

No JW did every thing right.. this is why umpires are having problems... this is not one of these times we go for help.. stop doing this..and handle your business... JW did it right, and told RG that he had a foul tip, and he did not want to get help..

there is no way a umpire from over 110 feet away is gonna help him.

Don't take the word "could" that I used out of context. Just to clear the record, you know what you wrote is exactly how I feel on the subject also. Glad you are much more eloquent at the written word than I am. Mr. U does a good summation also.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now, for everyone's viewing pleasure

Here is a blurb by Mr. Clean, Mr. Nice, Choir Boy or whatever somebody wants to call him. Seems like he is the reincarnation of Earl Weaver

http://mlb.mlb.com/v...ent_id=14690335

If you believe in this guy watch this

http://losangeles.do...ction_2_400.wmv

[mazzamouth]

Listen there are things the MLB guys do that we shouldn't.. And know that I have gotten to talk and be trained by a bunch of them, they will tell you "do as i say not as i do" The MLB is a bigger game, the players are different, just like with Ejections, we teach young umpires that as soon as an ejection happens come get the coach/player right away. But at the Big's they let the guy stay and talk as long as it is not escalating into a bigger problem.

Some of there mechanics are different, but they can be this way, they have been there the ringer with PBUC/UDP to get there. Read your mechanics book and do what they tell you. Yes it is nice tosee them do things right, but when you have 4 umpires every game, you can relax and don't have to worry about busting in on overthrows.

I still say JW did the right thing, whether or not I like him, I thought he was right, it was his call, and getting help would not have done anything.. he sold his call 3 times and he told RG what he had, and told him don't come out here to argue or your gonna be ejected.. but he went threw the stop sign, and Dumbass Larry Bowa says JW was wrong.

[TNCoach]

Sorry, ...I'm just not a confrontational umpire, ...I don't LOOK for it, ...and it seems like JW "looks" for a reason to toss people ... doesn't make sense to me, ...but that's me

Trust me when i tell you these guys do not look for reason to throw guys.. that requires paperwork after the game.. I JW has been out there the last few yrs, but they don't go looking for EJ's.

I know of 2 or 3 umpires I have dealt with who love throwing people out of games. They look for EJ's. These are ones who tend to think the game is about them or that have a complex that they just can't be questioned. I realize it works that way with coaches too, but I would say that the percentage of coaches and umpires that are this way are about the same when it gets to the level where coaches are paid.

One umpire I am friends with lives for tossing coaches. He has done games I have been involved with twice. I refuse to even talk to him about a call because I know he would love to toss me.

First game I had where he was umping (BU), he called a charged conference when the coach was coming off from coaching bases and whispered something to the pitcher as he was crossing the foul line. Then his pitcher got out there and with a runner on first called a balk. I was in the 3rd base box next to their dugout. The coach asked what the pitcher did. The umpire yelled that he didn't come to a complete stop before delivery. The PU told the coach to go explain it to his pitcher because he knew the kid hadn't pitched much. He came out and was talking to the pitcher and showing him what to do. As he left, I heard him say, "Blue, take it easy on him. He hasn't pitched much." The BU yelled, "That's enough. You are restricted to the dugout." The coach turned around and looked at him and said, "What did I do?" The BU told him one more word and he was gone. He just shook his head and went to the dugout. About two pitches later, I heard nothing, but then the BU said, "That's enough! You're gone!" The coach walked past me as he was leaving to head to the parking lot and said I have no clue what just happened. Can you help me write an appeal for my suspension and fine?" I told him to call me later.

After the game the BU said he was calling the cops on the coach. Said he might file charges.

According to the county athletic director report, the umpire stated that the coach was cussing the BU from the dugout. The third base dugout. I was standing in the 3B coaches box and the PU was right next to the 3B dugout as the dugout hooks in with the backstop. Neither of us heard it.

The 2nd game I had with him, he had just forfeited a softball game after the visiting coach asked him where his strike zone was (from the 1B coach box). That should have been an EJ. He then told her she had 60 seconds to leave or it was a forfeit. She sat in the dugout for about 45 seconds and was gathering her stuff when apparently that time was gone, so he called ballgame and awarded the game to our girls.

Then we got to the baseball field, he started going through the other team's bat bags looking at their bats. When he would find an illegal bat, he would toss it over the fence onto the field. During the first inning, there was a call at 3B that went against me. A visiting fan yelled something about being out of position. Bang, he tossed the stands. The principal, acting as the administrator, persuaded him to not. They found the one who yelled it, and he left.

Some do just look for EJ's.

[mtnump]

This guy is an a$$ and should not be umpiring, period.

[TNCoach]

This guy is an a$ and should not be umpiring, period.

I think the authority goes to his head... I really like the guy but worry every time he is at the field.

My question is, do many umpires really like tossing someone... Not necessarily baiting an ejection, but looking for an excuse. I can tell you that I have read many of the ejection stories on here. It seems many have too short a fuse. I mean, level makes a big difference. I don't question an umpire in a way that I question their judgement. Close play at home and instead of saying come on he was in there, I ask why the umpire made the call. You know, did he block him off the plate or did he just get him before he got there? Stuff like that. If there are a few horrible calls or it seems that every close call is going the other way, I will start chirping from the dugout. Not overly, but it happens.

I do know that every time I venture out of the dugout, I am putting myself at risk for ejection. Coaches need to understand that most umpires are out there trying to get them. They are trying to get the right calls (though I realize there are some that hold grudges against certain coaches and it is evident in calls). Umpires also need to understand that many coaches are wanting to make sure the umpires get the calls right and the coach may be convinced it was the wrong call or it may not have been the right call. Our priority as a coach is to make sure that our kids are given the training to win, but also given a fair chance to win. We are the ones who are to deal with umpires so they can worry about just playing the game. If I go out there to question something, I don't want the ump to have a short lease and toss me. I'd rather not serve a two game suspension and I sure as heck don't want to pay a $250.00 fine. I realize strikes and balls can't be argued, but I also wouldn't want to feel I couldn't ask the umpire about something like a foul tip. A strike zone while it is defined is not realistically a static object. It varies from umpire to umpire and may expand or shrink over a game period. A foul ball is not a judgement. It is either fouled (tipped) or it isn't. I would hope in a case like that it would be more of:

HC: Can you get help on that? I don't think it was tipped.

PU: He can't see that from out there... I am positive it caught the bat.

Then the HC could just walk off... no harm done. Or he might say could you just see if they had an angle where they could confirm?

Then the PU could say, no I am positive, or I can but if no one is sure, it stays.... If he says no, I am positive, he could then say its over, let's play ball. I just don't think this is a cut and dry strike/ball argument. It is similar to asking for help on a foul-tip and whether or not the ball hit the ground.

Two years ago we had a guy with two strikes on him. The next pitch was foul-tipped and went into the catcher's chest protector. The PU called a foul-tip strikeout. Of course I argued this. I said it can't go off his equip, let alone in it. He said it didn't matter. I told him a tip has to go straight into the mitt. I didn't get hateful or show him up. As a matter of fact, he regularly tells fellow umpires that haven't had me before that I know the rules, but I won't show them up. Should he have tossed me for arguing balls and strikes?

[Mr Umpire]

My question is, do many umpires really like tossing someone... Not necessarily baiting an ejection, but looking for an excuse. I can tell you that I have read many of the ejection stories on here. It seems many have too short a fuse. I mean, level makes a big difference. I don't question an umpire in a way that I question their judgement. Close play at home and instead of saying come on he was in there, I ask why the umpire made the call. You know, did he block him off the plate or did he just get him before he got there? Stuff like that. If there are a few horrible calls or it seems that every close call is going the other way, I will start chirping from the dugout. Not overly, but it happens.

Some do. I hear umpires say things like "I just dared him to say another word" or something like that. I may go out there and say to myself "I don't want to hear a single complaint tonight". But, I know I will and I will deal with it accordingly. If an EJ is warranted, so be it. But, it depends on the situation and each one is different. We have our bad nights and those who put their attitude aside when it comes to umpiring are the better ones. Our calling may not improve for whatever reason for that game but at least, our handling of it is.

A foul ball is not a judgement. It is either fouled (tipped) or it isn't. I would hope in a case like that it would be more of:

HC: Can you get help on that? I don't think it was tipped.

PU: He can't see that from out there... I am positive it caught the bat.

Then the HC could just walk off... no harm done. Or he might say could you just see if they had an angle where they could confirm?

Then the PU could say, no I am positive, or I can but if no one is sure, it stays.... If he says no, I am positive, he could then say its over, let's play ball. I just don't think this is a cut and dry strike/ball argument. It is similar to asking for help on a foul-tip and whether or not the ball hit the ground.

Foul ball/tip is judgment unless it is so obvious to everyone that it was foul. Such as it hits the fence behind HP. The cut and dry part of it is when telling a coach before he comes out that no help is going to be asked for but he continues anyway. That is what earned RG the EJ. He was given his warning and he chose to ignore it. Plus, he was yelling from the dugout before he even got to the top step.

Two years ago we had a guy with two strikes on him. The next pitch was foul-tipped and went into the catcher's chest protector. The PU called a foul-tip strikeout. Of course I argued this. I said it can't go off his equip, let alone in it. He said it didn't matter. I told him a tip has to go straight into the mitt. I didn't get hateful or show him up. As a matter of fact, he regularly tells fellow umpires that haven't had me before that I know the rules, but I won't show them up. Should he have tossed me for arguing balls and strikes?

The tip can hit his hand or mitt. If it hits one of them first and then hits the equipment and is caught before touching the ground, it is still a foul tip. Strike 3, batter out, live ball. It cannot hit his equipment first and then be caught. That is a foul ball.

And, again, it depends on how you approach the umpire and if he has given a warning already.

[Cactus]

"Personally", to answer your question, no, what happened, happened and I would have done what Joe did with the warnings and hand up telling Gardenhire not to come out, but yes, of course he could have just let it go and not ejected him. Anyone can just let them run all over you and not eject if you do not want too. However, IMHO, that would be wrong, and I personally would have done exactly what Joe did, and yes taken the heat for it.

Now, lets have others who went to the Dale Carnegie course's (how to win friends and influence people) tell how they would have handled it differently, kept the player from getting upset, kept Gardenhire from even asking and kept him from even comming out of the dugout, without trying to say there was no foul tip at all.

I love this site, but it really irques me when [not YOU necessarily dumbdumb] but in general, most people side with whatever the pro does on the field. I really bugs me. And, for some reason, ...no one is reading what I'm writing. So, ...please ...pay attention:

Did I say he shouldn't have tossed him? NO

Did I say he should have kept the player and Gardenhire from getting upset? NO

Gardenhire comes and asks ...you can see him.... "Joe, ...Joe" ..... Take a couple steps towards Ron and say.... Ron, stop right there, ..I have a foul tip, and I"m not asking for help .... just TALK to him for a second, ....instead of just standing there ...

Nothing Dale Carnegie about it

Joe West has been in the game since 1974 (he was out for a little bit though).....he is around 6,000 games in. Why do you think you know more than him about handling situations at the big league level? Go work a Professional baseball (National Association/MLB) game every day of your life for the next 16 years and then see how your perspective changes.

[yawetag]

The tip can hit his hand or mitt. If it hits one of them first and then hits the equipment and is caught before touching the ground, it is still a foul tip. Strike 3, batter out, live ball. It cannot hit his equipment first and then be caught. That is a foul ball.

In the situation, it lodged INTO his chest protector. At that point, it's a foul ball.

[Thunderheads]

"Personally", to answer your question, no, what happened, happened and I would have done what Joe did with the warnings and hand up telling Gardenhire not to come out, but yes, of course he could have just let it go and not ejected him. Anyone can just let them run all over you and not eject if you do not want too. However, IMHO, that would be wrong, and I personally would have done exactly what Joe did, and yes taken the heat for it.

Now, lets have others who went to the Dale Carnegie course's (how to win friends and influence people) tell how they would have handled it differently, kept the player from getting upset, kept Gardenhire from even asking and kept him from even comming out of the dugout, without trying to say there was no foul tip at all.

I love this site, but it really irques me when [not YOU necessarily dumbdumb] but in general, most people side with whatever the pro does on the field. I really bugs me. And, for some reason, ...no one is reading what I'm writing. So, ...please ...pay attention:

Did I say he shouldn't have tossed him? NO

Did I say he should have kept the player and Gardenhire from getting upset? NO

Gardenhire comes and asks ...you can see him.... "Joe, ...Joe" ..... Take a couple steps towards Ron and say.... Ron, stop right there, ..I have a foul tip, and I"m not asking for help .... just TALK to him for a second, ....instead of just standing there ...

Nothing Dale Carnegie about it

Joe West has been in the game since 1974 (he was out for a little bit though).....he is around 6,000 games in. Why do you think you know more than him about handling situations at the big league level? Go work a Professional baseball (National Association/MLB) game every day of your life for the next 16 years and then see how your perspective changes.

Here is a perfect example of someone who is NOT READING posts. I never said Joe West was wrong. I never said I knew more than him either, ....did I ??? Wait, let me go check ....NOPE I never said that either. All I asked was ... COULD IT HAD BEEN DONE differently? That's all ,...so, please, relax...

[Mr Umpire]

The tip can hit his hand or mitt. If it hits one of them first and then hits the equipment and is caught before touching the ground, it is still a foul tip. Strike 3, batter out, live ball. It cannot hit his equipment first and then be caught. That is a foul ball.

In the situation, it lodged INTO his chest protector. At that point, it's a foul ball.

I missed that upon first read.

[Cactus]

Here is a perfect example of someone who is NOT READING posts. I never said Joe West was wrong. I never said I knew more than him either, ....did I ??? Wait, let me go check ....NOPE I never said that either. All I asked was ... COULD IT HAD BEEN DONE differently? That's all ,...so, please, relax...

You don't get it. If you did you would never had even asked if it could have been done differently. That is how you do it. The example conversation you posted was ridiculous. I understand stuff like that may work in the games you work, but things are a little different in MLB.

[Thunderheads]

Here is a perfect example of someone who is NOT READING posts. I never said Joe West was wrong. I never said I knew more than him either, ....did I ??? Wait, let me go check ....NOPE I never said that either. All I asked was ... COULD IT HAD BEEN DONE differently? That's all ,...so, please, relax...

You don't get it. If you did you would never had even asked if it could have been done differently. That is how you do it. The example conversation you posted was ridiculous. I understand stuff like that may work in the games you work, but things are a little different in MLB.

it was a hypothetical, and trust me, ...I GET IT! What is really ridiculous (your word) is that you're getting all worked up about this. So, I take it you've got a bunch of experience in the bigs ??? You're talking like you do.

[Mr Umpire]

Here is a perfect example of someone who is NOT READING posts. I never said Joe West was wrong. I never said I knew more than him either, ....did I ??? Wait, let me go check ....NOPE I never said that either. All I asked was ... COULD IT HAD BEEN DONE differently? That's all ,...so, please, relax...

You don't get it. If you did you would never had even asked if it could have been done differently. That is how you do it. The example conversation you posted was ridiculous. I understand stuff like that may work in the games you work, but things are a little different in MLB.

it was a hypothetical, and trust me, ...I GET IT! What is really ridiculous (your word) is that you're getting all worked up about this. So, I take it you've got a bunch of experience in the bigs ??? You're talking like you do.

Now, now, children. This isn't the site for that kind of stuff.

Cactus,

Jeff was asking a question and it was answered with what you are saying and more. But, it was done in a much more diplomatic way. Read previous posts. He, like everyone should, is asking a question and wanting to know how it may relate to the levels he calls. And, at the MLB level, could it have been done differently to prevent the resulting actions. It has been explained more thoroughly than your posts of why MLB is a different world.

He "got it" about 15 posts ago.

[Thunderheads]

Here is a perfect example of someone who is NOT READING posts. I never said Joe West was wrong. I never said I knew more than him either, ....did I ??? Wait, let me go check ....NOPE I never said that either. All I asked was ... COULD IT HAD BEEN DONE differently? That's all ,...so, please, relax...

You don't get it. If you did you would never had even asked if it could have been done differently. That is how you do it. The example conversation you posted was ridiculous. I understand stuff like that may work in the games you work, but things are a little different in MLB.

it was a hypothetical, and trust me, ...I GET IT! What is really ridiculous (your word) is that you're getting all worked up about this. So, I take it you've got a bunch of experience in the bigs ??? You're talking like you do.

Now, now, children. This isn't the site for that kind of stuff.

Cactus,

Jeff was asking a question and it was answered with what you are saying and more. But, it was done in a much more diplomatic way. Read previous posts. He, like everyone should, is asking a question and wanting to know how it may relate to the levels he calls. And, at the MLB level, could it have been done differently to prevent the resulting actions. It has been explained more thoroughly than your posts of why MLB is a different world.

He "got it" about 15 posts ago.

Yeah!! What HE said!! :notworthy:

[mstaylor]

My question is, do many umpires really like tossing someone... Not necessarily baiting an ejection, but looking for an excuse. I can tell you that I have read many of the ejection stories on here. It seems many have too short a fuse. I mean, level makes a big difference. I don't question an umpire in a way that I question their judgement. Close play at home and instead of saying come on he was in there, I ask why the umpire made the call. You know, did he block him off the plate or did he just get him before he got there? Stuff like that. If there are a few horrible calls or it seems that every close call is going the other way, I will start chirping from the dugout. Not overly, but it happens.

Some do. I hear umpires say things like "I just dared him to say another word" or something like that. I may go out there and say to myself "I don't want to hear a single complaint tonight". But, I know I will and I will deal with it accordingly. If an EJ is warranted, so be it. But, it depends on the situation and each one is different. We have our bad nights and those who put their attitude aside when it comes to umpiring are the better ones. Our calling may not improve for whatever reason for that game but at least, our handling of it is.

A foul ball is not a judgement. It is either fouled (tipped) or it isn't. I would hope in a case like that it would be more of:

HC: Can you get help on that? I don't think it was tipped.

PU: He can't see that from out there... I am positive it caught the bat.

Then the HC could just walk off... no harm done. Or he might say could you just see if they had an angle where they could confirm?

Then the PU could say, no I am positive, or I can but if no one is sure, it stays.... If he says no, I am positive, he could then say its over, let's play ball. I just don't think this is a cut and dry strike/ball argument. It is similar to asking for help on a foul-tip and whether or not the ball hit the ground.

Foul ball/tip is judgment unless it is so obvious to everyone that it was foul. Such as it hits the fence behind HP. The cut and dry part of it is when telling a coach before he comes out that no help is going to be asked for but he continues anyway. That is what earned RG the EJ. He was given his warning and he chose to ignore it. Plus, he was yelling from the dugout before he even got to the top step.

Two years ago we had a guy with two strikes on him. The next pitch was foul-tipped and went into the catcher's chest protector. The PU called a foul-tip strikeout. Of course I argued this. I said it can't go off his equip, let alone in it. He said it didn't matter. I told him a tip has to go straight into the mitt. I didn't get hateful or show him up. As a matter of fact, he regularly tells fellow umpires that haven't had me before that I know the rules, but I won't show them up. Should he have tossed me for arguing balls and strikes?

The tip can hit his hand or mitt. If it hits one of them first and then hits the equipment and is caught before touching the ground, it is still a foul tip. Strike 3, batter out, live ball. It cannot hit his equipment first and then be caught. That is a foul ball.

And, again, it depends on how you approach the umpire and if he has given a warning already.

Umpires should not be out looking to toss, but sometimes it is taken out of our hands. Umpires do not or should not allow anything from a previous game affect a call. An umpire calls the play as he sees it, if he makes an incorrect call based on on something else in a game or a previous game then he os cheating and has no business out there. Now if you have a manager that constantly comes out and makes an ass of himself, Francona, his rope may be shorter but he still has to do something that constitutes an ejection.

If he calls a foul tip and it actually hits his equipment first, or in your case got lodged, then certainly come out and ask. If it hits his gear and he catches it it is a foul ball. Come out and ask if he has it the same way, if he does then explain that it should be a foul not a tip. If he says it doesn't matter then protest. If it lodges in his gear it can't be a foul tip or a caught foul ball. It can only be a dead ball, protest.

[mazzamouth]

The tip can hit his hand or mitt. If it hits one of them first and then hits the equipment and is caught before touching the ground, it is still a foul tip. Strike 3, batter out, live ball. It cannot hit his equipment first and then be caught. That is a foul ball.

In the situation, it lodged INTO his chest protector. At that point, it's a foul ball.

If the fould tip hit the hand or glove 1st, then is smothered against his chest protector it is a "FOUL TIP"

[yawetag]

The tip can hit his hand or mitt. If it hits one of them first and then hits the equipment and is caught before touching the ground, it is still a foul tip. Strike 3, batter out, live ball. It cannot hit his equipment first and then be caught. That is a foul ball.

In the situation, it lodged INTO his chest protector. At that point, it's a foul ball.

If the fould tip hit the hand or glove 1st, then is smothered against his chest protector it is a "FOUL TIP"

I read the situation as lodging into his equipment, such as between his protector and shirt.

[TNCoach]

The tip can hit his hand or mitt. If it hits one of them first and then hits the equipment and is caught before touching the ground, it is still a foul tip. Strike 3, batter out, live ball. It cannot hit his equipment first and then be caught. That is a foul ball.

In the situation, it lodged INTO his chest protector. At that point, it's a foul ball.

If the fould tip hit the hand or glove 1st, then is smothered against his chest protector it is a "FOUL TIP"

I read the situation as lodging into his equipment, such as between his protector and shirt.

In the case I was referencing, the ball was tipped and went into the catcher's chest protector through the arm hole.

Funny thing is that was two years ago. This year the coaches were asked which umpires we wanted to have in our conference tourney and I nominated him.

[mstaylor]

Has he improved enough to do play-offs? if not why would you nominate him knowing he sucked?

[TNCoach]

He is one of the better ones we have now.