Balks for idiotss

[constable]

I'm a fastpitch umpire who this year has made the switch to baseball this year.

I've read the rule time and time again, but am wondering if you guys can give me some more layman examples of balks.. i.e. in non-rulebook-ese.

Thanks.

[blindumpire99]

I can think of one, right off the top of my feeble minded head, that you will encounter and hear about from coaches on either side of the field, especially the defsnive side if/when you call it and that is the mythical "45 degree angle pickoff at first" from a LH pitcher.

Balk movements rules state that you must step towards a base before throwing in order for it to be legal. Sounds pretty simple enough, right?

So where does the 45 degree angle come into play? A couple of years ago, just before I had heard enough from a coach, told him so, and then heaved him, I asked him to show me in ANY rule book, anywhere, where it specifically said that a 45 degree angled step was a legal move for a pickoff.

That step, to me, is more towards the plate, in theory, than towards first base, IMHO.

[therefump]

I'm a fastpitch umpire who this year has made the switch to baseball this year.

I've read the rule time and time again, but am wondering if you guys can give me some more layman examples of balks.. i.e. in non-rulebook-ese.

Thanks.

Hmmm. I hate calling balks but here's a few I experienced this year.

1) Comes to the set position and turns shoulders to look at 1st base. The body (shoulders and below) must basically be frozen once in the set until either throwing to the base or plate.

2) Going to the mouth and then touching the ball. I'd like to hear comments about doing that outside the 18 foot pitcher's circle. Ball if no one on base. Balk otherwise.

3) From today, toeing the pitcher plate foot forward like he's going to windup and then putting the foot on the plate parallel to go to the stretch. BALK. One or the other, not both.

4) All time favorite in LL, stopping delivery for no legal reason.

Hope these help.

[Mr Umpire]

2) Going to the mouth and then touching the ball. I'd like to hear comments about doing that outside the 18 foot pitcher's circle. Ball if no one on base. Balk otherwise.

This does not constitute a balk unless the pitcher is already set. It is only a ball . Simply going to the mouth while in the 18 foot circle is a ball even with runners on. I have not called this. And, as long as the pitcher wipes it off and no one else notices, I won't call it.

[mstaylor]

I can think of one, right off the top of my feeble minded head, that you will encounter and hear about from coaches on either side of the field, especially the defsnive side if/when you call it and that is the mythical "45 degree angle pickoff at first" from a LH pitcher.

Balk movements rules state that you must step towards a base before throwing in order for it to be legal. Sounds pretty simple enough, right?

So where does the 45 degree angle come into play? A couple of years ago, just before I had heard enough from a coach, told him so, and then heaved him, I asked him to show me in ANY rule book, anywhere, where it specifically said that a 45 degree angled step was a legal move for a pickoff.

That step, to me, is more towards the plate, in theory, than towards first base, IMHO.

Actually the Fed casebook mentions the 45 line in it's interps.

[BrianC14]

A couple of things to consider about balks:

a) Don't ever buy into a partner saying: "You watch the waist and below, I'll watch above the waist." (or vice versa). That's unmitigated BS. If you see a balk, call it.

A sneaky balk is one where the pitcher flexes his knee while in the 'set' position - (it's usually the knee above the pivot foot); quite often, this can be subtle enough of a move that the plate umpire doesn't detect it; if you're on the bases and see this, call it.

Mechanics for FED games: "Time! That's a balk." Move the runners accordingly, starting with the runner farthest ahead (e.g., with R1 and R2, move R2 to third before you move R1 to second, etc.)

In OBR, simply call "Balk!" and move the runners as before - remember though that in OBR, the ball is live on a balk call, but it's dead in FED rules.

[BT_Blue]

How bout the RH F1 doing a jump turn in which he does not gain ground? Or the one where the LF F1 does not disengage the rubber nor step towards first but mearly throws to first.

[MCLEOD36]

Jim Evans has a great balk dvd... It is one that is so good, I lend mine out and rarely get it back promptly.

[someoneinca]

I can think of one, right off the top of my feeble minded head, that you will encounter and hear about from coaches on either side of the field, especially the defsnive side if/when you call it and that is the mythical "45 degree angle pickoff at first" from a LH pitcher.

Balk movements rules state that you must step towards a base before throwing in order for it to be legal. Sounds pretty simple enough, right?

So where does the 45 degree angle come into play? A couple of years ago, just before I had heard enough from a coach, told him so, and then heaved him, I asked him to show me in ANY rule book, anywhere, where it specifically said that a 45 degree angled step was a legal move for a pickoff.

That step, to me, is more towards the plate, in theory, than towards first base, IMHO.

According to the Jim Evans balk DVD, the 45 degree angle is an accepted interpretation

[Mr Umpire]

The 45 degree angle is an accepted guideline. If the pitcher does something else to balk, then the guideline is useless. Such as leans toward HP or simply lifts his foot and puts it straight down. It may be in that 45 degree line still but showed no distance.

So, while it is an accepted guideline, it is not in the rulebook. So, arguing it is a rule is useless. The coach has to argue that the pitcher stepped toward the base he was throwing to, ie. distance towards 1B. And, this is still judgment. I don't see a 45 degree white line to mark where the pitcher can and can't step.

I am not arguing with you b/c I use the guideline the best I can while watching a lefty. But, it still is not a rule which a coach has a leg to stand on when arguing what is or is not a balk.

[mstaylor]

Mr Umpire:

I'm confused, do you use the 45 degree interp or not. If you use it, why can't the manager uzse kit to argue his point? Now if the pitcher does something else, then it isn't a relevant argument. If you have him on the 45 but he didn't gain any distance then that's what you tell him. If the coach says he hit the 45 then say yes but he didn't get any distance.

[treedog24]

Does anyone set their balk radar to the age level of the kids? I know that if I called every balk on the 9-12 year olds, I could be there all night but once they get to high school I will call the "knee twitch".

[Mr Umpire]

I use it as a guideline but I use the idea of which base did he gain direction to more. If he is within the 45 line, then he will gain direction toward 1B. If he is not, then he will gain more toward HP. And, if he gains none, then balk. Thus, this falling under 8.05©.

There are rules everyone can see to support this. There are no rules to support the 45 degree line. So, I will not cite it when explaining and no coach can cite it since he will not find it in any rulebook.

It is a guideline for determining if he went toward HP or 1B. It is not a hard fast rule. It will not go on any report I write up and no coach will be able to tell a rule number when protesting.

They can try but I don't see a rule 8.05(n), It is a balk when the pitcher steps over the 45 degree line.

[someoneinca]

Does anyone set their balk radar to the age level of the kids? I know that if I called every balk on the 9-12 year olds, I could be there all night but once they get to high school I will call the "knee twitch".

I hardly call any illegal pitches at the 9-12 year old level. I only call the obvious ones at this level such as a start and stop or a quick pitch.

[mstaylor]

I don't know about your area but around here pitching coaches teach the 45 and well aware of how it is called. It is in the FED casebook, that coaches have access to. It is used at the pro level and MLB even experimented with putting a line on the mound during spring training one year. It doesn't need a seperate rule section, the part that says the pitcher has to step toward the base is enough. This is by no means the only rule in the book that is expanded or changed somewhat by interpretation.

[BT_Blue]

I don't know about your area but around here pitching coaches teach the 45 and well aware of how it is called. It is in the FED casebook, that coaches have access to. It is used at the pro level and MLB even experimented with putting a line on the mound during spring training one year. It doesn't need a seperate rule section, the part that says the pitcher has to step toward the base is enough. This is by no means the only rule in the book that is expanded or changed somewhat by interpretation.

If I remember correctly NCAA actually had the line on the mound for a year. But they took it off because they ran into problems where a lefty would throw from the first base side of the rubber and would gain an extra foot or so for the move to first.

[ShinySideUp]

Does anyone set their balk radar to the age level of the kids? I know that if I called every balk on the 9-12 year olds, I could be there all night but once they get to high school I will call the "knee twitch".

I don't remember what game it was (during the MLB Network "Round the Bases" highlight show), but in an MLB game ...

R1, R2. RHP. F1 comes set, then steps at the very end of the pitcher's plate (directly toward 3B, and gaining roughly 2" distance, from my angle in the easy chair), then threw to 2B and got the pickoff.

My wife just laughed when I said the MLB ump was wrong, because he stepped toward third *unoccupied* and threw toward second.

sigh

[digo21]

Does anyone set their balk radar to the age level of the kids? I know that if I called every balk on the 9-12 year olds, I could be there all night but once they get to high school I will call the "knee twitch".

I was dealing with an 11 year old tournament this weekend, a lot of teams this was their first time throwing over. Needless to say I called one balk the entire weekend and instead opted to inform the coach what the kids where doing wrong.

[Finnblue]

Sit. 1: RHP in set, lifts his left leg up bending his knee, then whirs around and steps toward first throwing there. I called balk, b/c his knee started first going home = that's where he has to go.

I had a long discussion about this in TX with the DC - who also happened to be an umpire.

Sit. 2: Hidden ball trick, pitcher standing on the mound but NOT on the rubber nor stradling it. For me that is not a balk. OBR doesn't even mention anything about the mound.

This has been one of the biggest disagreements between umpires both here in Europe and in US - in my experience.

Sit. 3: F3 holding runner at the base, his feet on the foul area. The PU doesn't notice and puts the ball in play. Pitcher pitches and OC starts pointing F3 and yelling "Balk! Balk! He wasn't on fair area!"

Uuh... again some umpires read the OBR 4.03 that the penalty in (a) means for the whole rule when some others (including me) sees it concern only catcher receiving intentional walk.

Anything else?

MS

[widac]

Sit. 3: F3 holding runner at the base, his feet on the foul area. The PU doesn't notice and puts the ball in play. Pitcher pitches and OC starts pointing F3 and yelling "Balk! Balk! He wasn't on fair area!"

MS

Not even the tips of his shoes were hovering over the line?

[Finnblue]

Not even the tips of his shoes were hovering over the line?

Who cares, it's not a balk anyway. Put PU shouldn't put the ball in play unless F3 has at least one foot in fair area.

Sit. 4: (sometimes I wonder who puts these ideas into coaches' heads? And why some umpires go with it) R1, RHT F1 gets set, F5 signs him to pick R1 so F1 whirrs around and tries to pick R1 off. And OC at third base starts yelling "Balk! He didn't get his sign from the catcher!" And what does the BU do? Right, he calls a balk!

I was at the stands that time so I couldn't say a word. Afterwards I asked BU why did he call that balk. He quoted OBR 8.01: "Pitchers shall take signs from the catcher while in contact with the pitcher’s plate." Uuh...

MS

[zm1283]

How bout the RH F1 doing a jump turn in which he does not gain ground? Or the one where the LF F1 does not disengage the rubber nor step towards first but mearly throws to first.

Has anyone ever heard where this is NOT a balk in FED? All FED says is that the pitcher must step toward the base. I've always thought that the pitcher has to gain ground on a jump turn just like in NCAA/OBR, but I've talked to others who think otherwise.

[Don]

Does anyone set their balk radar to the age level of the kids? I know that if I called every balk on the 9-12 year olds, I could be there all night but once they get to high school I will call the "knee twitch".

Sure. 13-15 leagues and JV players get a little leeway, Varsity not.

[Don]

Has anyone ever heard where this is NOT a balk in FED? All FED says is that the pitcher must step toward the base. I've always thought that the pitcher has to gain ground on a jump turn just like in NCAA/OBR, but I've talked to others who think otherwise.

Jump turns are legal. Never seen one where ground was not gained. If ground was not gained it was not a jump turn (ie spin move).

[noumpere]

Has anyone ever heard where this is NOT a balk in FED? All FED says is that the pitcher must step toward the base. I've always thought that the pitcher has to gain ground on a jump turn just like in NCAA/OBR, but I've talked to others who think otherwise.

And I've talked to "others" who think F1 must disengage, and "others" who think the hands are part of the bat, etc.

The "others" are wrong. FED clearly states that the front foot must step toward first, and the other codes agree.