Interference, Obstruction or something else?

[DBCat]

Hi

What’s the correct call here?
Should umpires consult with their team of umpires here?
How do I explain to kids how to run in this situation?

if runner is out what could he do differently?

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16MlwH3ss9xZJuacDBMUTtBPKmiG7sMI1/view?usp=drivesdk

[Jay R.]

It depends on your rule set, potentially both the base rule set and local modifications, particularly regarding the use of the safety base. 

On replay, it seems to me the runner runs legally in the running lane, then exits with one step before touching the base, for the purpose of avoiding the fielder who is set up on the orange safety base.

Given the dropped third strike, the fielder's position is legal in all major sets I'm aware of that authorize the safety base, but I have had a local league say that even on U3K the fielder had to use the white bag. So I don't think you'd have obstruction, unless your local league/tournament has a specific rule preventing him from taking that position. 

With the benefit of replay, I think the runner's actions are all legal, regardless of situation. He runs in the lane, then exits in the last step or two to go the base. (Unless your local safety base rules require him to use the orange bag regardless of U3K.)

Even if I don't have replay and I think he's mostly out of the baseline, I don't think I would call the runner out here, given that he's clearly avoiding a collision and there's a lack of a good throw. NFHS rules and interpretations matter; NFHS wants all potential runner's interference called as soon as there's a throw. My state doesn't use the safety base yet at the high school level, so I can't say with confidence how they want this situation called. (Clearly this is below high school level but if it's Fed rules and an NFHS umpire, he may be going with that interpretation.)

[MadMax]

13 hours ago, DHizzo said:

What’s the correct call here?

The correct call is No Call. The BR ran exactly how the Safety Base Rules-makers envisioned. The F2 and F3 both went "outside" and used the orange (safety) base; as a consequence / allowance, the BR must use the opposite, in this case, the white base. Furthermore, the BR was within or on the chalk of the baseline all the way until the last stride, which takes him(?) to the white base... which he has to touch by rule, since F3 is squarely on the orange base. And he didn't even interfere with the (poor) throw from F2, either. 

Granted, NFHS wrote into the(ir) rules that F2 doesn't have to throw to 1B to enact RLI being called on the BR, because TPTB don't want to have throws deliberately aimed at the BR's body, but even if NFHS is applicable here, on this play/game, it's not warranted on this play, since the BR, again, is not outside the lane until the last stride. 

13 hours ago, DHizzo said:

Should umpires consult with their team of umpires here?

The PU shouldn't call RLI in the first place. That "fixes" it right there. Otherwise, I don't see any other umpires on that field that could refute the call. Either this PU is working solo, or the BU is at C; in either case, the BU is in no position to contribute any information on this, other than perhaps a cursory consultation of rules knowledge. Furthermore, I can tell from body language and conduction alone – this PU was dead-set-convinced on calling RLI. Consulting other umpires on the crew (when they're present) ain't gonna change much, if at all. What's needed is a PU who knows these applicable rules better / more effectively, and can interpret them properly. 

13 hours ago, DHizzo said:

How do I explain to kids how to run in this situation?

To run exactly how this BR ran. This particular PU booted it. 

If you're going to explain anything to kids, it's "don't swing at a pitch that's in the other batter's box". 

14 hours ago, DHizzo said:

if runner is out what could he do differently?

He shouldn't have been called Out. Simple. Do nothing different – other than the aforementioned "don't swing at pitches that grossly outside". Carry on. 

[beerguy55]

wtf is a "free foot violation"??  I've never heard that term.  Sounds like MSU.

 

The vast vast majority of leagues/tourneys allow F3 to take the orange on this play, and requires B/R to take the white.  F3 should not be moving into the runner, even to receive the throw.  I think this should be OBS. The bags are assigned for a reason...if we just allow last minute movement into the other path what is the F*#King point?  F3 establishes which bag to the take, and B/R takes the other.   No takebacksies.

 

The weird part is, I could see this called either way 20 years ago, when F3 had to take white and B/R had to take orange.  F3 is OBS for standing on orange, forcing B/R into a choice between collision or taking the white.  B/R is INT because they're not allowed to take white, so they'd be expected to avoid collision to foul territory...where F3 would then be called for OBS (or B/R just touches orange when F3 moves over to try to catch the throw).

 

 

[The Man in Blue]

The correct call is not to click strange links supplied by strangers . . . 

Yeah, I'm a paranoid lunatic.

Embed somehow and we can take a look.

[DBCat]

1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

The correct call is not to click strange links supplied by strangers . . . 

Yeah, I'm a paranoid lunatic.

Embed somehow and we can take a look.

Bro, it’s a Google link. But I guess better safe than sorry. It’s a very large file/video. 

[Velho]

It's on Reddit if easier to view there for folks

https://packaged-media.redd.it/6j4hcs1sad5h1/pb/m2-res_480p.mp4

[beerguy55]

11 hours ago, DHizzo said:

Bro, it’s a Google link.

Yes - the bad guys also use Google Drive.

[jimurrayalterego]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

wtf is a "free foot violation"??  I've never heard that term.  Sounds like MSU.

 

 

 

 

I heard "3 foot violation" which I guess is his way of saying RLI and his way of telling us his level of rules knowledge.

[The Man in Blue]

Obligatory answer first . . . I've got a $75 call.  This is what you get when you hire only one umpire who doesn't bother to move.  But he has a number on his sleeve, so I'm sure he calls NCAA when he isn't moonlighting in Little League.

Guys, if you are going to hang your hat on an RLI call, you damned well better be doing it up the line, not from behind home plate.

Now that I got my snideness out of the way . . . 

 

Depends on your rule set (do they allow the defense to use the orange?) . . . but in most rule sets, I got nothing but a runner on first base now.

F3 properly set up on the orange side, signaling to BR that he needed to go white.  BR made sure he stayed in the runners lane until he needed to exit, then exited to go white.  F2 made a crappy throw.  F3 went to get the crappy throw, and crossed behind the runner (had he crossed in front, we would have obstruction).  Some incidental contact was made which may have caused the runner to fall, but it wasn't obstruction, and it sure as heck wasn't interference.

 

[The Man in Blue]

19 hours ago, DHizzo said:

Bro, it’s a Google link. But I guess better safe than sorry. It’s a very large file/video.

 

I don't know where that Google link has been.  I'm not putting it in my mouth, and I'm certainly not kissing my mother with it

[DBCat]

6 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Some incidental contact was made which may have caused the runner to fall, but it wasn't obstruction, and it sure as heck wasn't interference.

Thanks for your analysis here. Very instructive.  At what point would you call this obstruction?