Sanity check.... Pitcher returning to the mound

[BLWizzRanger]

Guys, I had a total crap game today where a Class A ( small school) team held a DH on a weeknight with a team located an hour and a half away.  Close to a 3-inning/15 run rule and 5-inning/10 run ruled game but no cigar - it went the entire 7 innings - 19 to 15 game. Three and a half hour game.  (I take blame for a too tight of zone and game management) So excuse me for not being able to find this tonight. The winning team's coach played with the pitcher's pitch count by removing the stud to keep him available for the next game. Once he left, the game went to crap. I curse that coach. Thanks for letting me vent for a second.

Anyways, the winning team had used a player as a pitcher, removed him to another position and the inning ended.  The start of the next inning or the one after that, they inserted the same player back as pitcher.   I can't find where that was illegal other than the player can return to pitch only once an inning. (3.1.2) Nothing I can find says he can't return to pitch, legally, like was mentioned. Am I missing something?

[noumpere]

It’s legal, unless the pitcher was removed for excess conferences, or injury and the relief pitcher required more than 8 warmups. ….

 

look in the substitution rules. 

[BLWizzRanger]

6 hours ago, noumpere said:

It’s legal, unless the pitcher was removed for excess conferences, or injury and the relief pitcher required more than 8 warmups. ….

 

look in the substitution rules. 

OK, Yeah, as mentioned, I could only find 3.1.2 for substitutions. Thanks!

[jimurrayalterego]

2 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

OK, Yeah, as mentioned, I could only find 3.1.2 for substitutions. Thanks!

You were missing being prepared with knowledge of the rules for a sit we don't think happens very often. To prepare you further there is a caseplay or interp that confirms that a starting pitcher can be removed from the game and re-enter later to pitch.

[noumpere]

4 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

OK, Yeah, as mentioned, I could only find 3.1.2 for substitutions. Thanks!

Sorry. I’m about 8000 miles away from my rules books, or I’d give you a cite 

[BigBlue4u]

16 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

Once

I don't know what state you are from, but in California, if a pitcher exceeds the pitch count the game is forfeited.

[The Man in Blue]

2 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

I don't know what state you are from, but in California, if a pitcher exceeds the pitch count the game is forfeited.

Not an umpire issue in Illinois.  We have nothing to do with pitch counts.  Does CA put you guys on the hook?

[BigBlue4u]

3 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Not an umpire issue in Illinois.  We have nothing to do with pitch counts.  Does CA put you guys on the hook?

Same here in California.  The umpires are not involved.  At first, it was suggested that the plate umpire confirm the count with the home team after each half-inning.  Fortunately, the state rules interpreter talked the CIF out of it.

[BLWizzRanger]

If there was a misunderstanding with me being cute, let me clear up my statement above.  The coach knew his pitcher was near a limit for another day's rest.  He thought the game was going to be over soon in a 15-run/3 inning contest. He removed his pitcher to save a day's rest.  Game went 7-innings.  I did nothing other than noting to myself that he just jinxed us.

break break

What are your states doing about a pitcher pitching in both games of a double header?  I think my board is advising (since we don't have any involvement in pitch limits but keep being asked) that a pitcher can NOT pitch in both games unless they are under 30 pitches.  This doesn't make sense to me since the rules state "day's" rest and it should be that a pitcher can only pitch up to 105 pitches per day (not as 105 pitches per game). So this would be a day vice day comparison.  What is the guidance you are using?

[TheLovejoy]

In note form, nothing official if your state does something different from NFHS, this is what I'd have to enforce:

-This would count as 2 appearances.
-They can't make more than 2 appearances in a 3 day period regardless of pitch count.
-They can pitch in another game the same day if under 31 pitches for the first game.
-Umpires aren't responsible for pitch counts, but are responsible for enforcing penalties if it's pointed out.
-Opposing team faces a penalty if they 'game' the system by letting a player go over the pitch count, and then calling the pitching team out on it. (It's a safety issue for the player, so anybody knowingly letting it happen is held accountable as well)
 

[jimurrayalterego]

19 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

I don't know what state you are from, but in California, if a pitcher exceeds the pitch count the game is forfeited.

What does your reference to "once" mean?

[BLWizzRanger]

For WV, here are rules.  If they can pitch on three consecutive days and have a DH on each day, potentially, they could pitch in six games:

[StatsUmp]

12 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

What are your states doing about a pitcher pitching in both games of a double header?  I think my board is advising (since we don't have any involvement in pitch limits but keep being asked) that a pitcher can NOT pitch in both games unless they are under 30 pitches.

In Michigan pitchers who didn't max out their pitch count in game one can pitch in both games of a doubleheader, the MHSAA FAQ states:

Quote

As long as it is allowed by substitution rules, and the pitcher has not yet reached his/her maximum daily pitch count limit, a pitcher may return to the pitcher’s position a second time during the same game. The same applies to a pitcher that pitches in multiple games in the same day – it is allowed as long as he/she has not yet reached his/her maximum daily pitch count limit. In both cases, all pitches are accumulative as it applies to the required days of rest requirement

I saw this happen last year in a freshman doubleheader (two five inning games by league rule). F1 pitched the entire first game and had pitches remaining. He started the nightcap and pitched until he maxed out his daily count.