First Ejection of the Year

[jaybird_1981]

Well this was only my 3rd ejection in 14 years. (I probably should have had a couple more though).

Well here is what happened. Top of the 3rd visiting team hits a ground ball down the third base line that goes over the corner of the bag. I signal fair and watch the play develop. Well after the play is over the home teams manager comes out on the field a little past third base and is yelling at me for not vocalizing the fair call. I was like coach you don't vocalize fair calls. He continues yelling so I call time and say come here and I will explain it to you and he responds with no you come here. I was a little surprised at first and figured I would give him one more shot and I say coach come here and he says no again that I have to come there. And I say don't worry about it you are gone and I eject him.

It didn't end there unfortunately after taking his time to get in his truck and vacate the field I notice the assistant coach is on a cell phone in the dugout and gets off and makes a pitching change. I walk over and ask him if that was the head coach and he says yes. And I explain once you are ejected he can no longer coach in any capacity and he says he wasn't aware of that. So I said if I see a cell phone on the field again I will have to eject him as well. Have you guys ever seen anything like this before?

Was I justified in my ejection?

[BrianC14]

Well this was only my 3rd ejection in 14 years. (I probably should have had a couple more though).

Well here is what happened. Top of the 3rd visiting team hits a ground ball down the third base line that goes over the corner of the bag. I signal fair and watch the play develop. Well after the play is over the home teams manager comes out on the field a little past third base and is yelling at me for not vocalizing the fair call. I was like coach you don't vocalize fair calls. He continues yelling so I call time and say come here and I will explain it to you and he responds with no you come here. I was a little surprised at first and figured I would give him one more shot and I say coach come here and he says no again that I have to come there. And I say don't worry about it you are gone and I eject him.

It didn't end there unfortunately after taking his time to get in his truck and vacate the field I notice the assistant coach is on a cell phone in the dugout and gets off and makes a pitching change. I walk over and ask him if that was the head coach and he says yes. And I explain once you are ejected he can no longer coach in any capacity and he says he wasn't aware of that. So I said if I see a cell phone on the field again I will have to eject him as well. Have you guys ever seen anything like this before?

Was I justified in my ejection?

I think you let it go too far with the head coach, though you were wise not to go to see him. It just doesn't work that way.

As for the AC and the cell phone - - what level of ball is this?

[therefump]

You let the initial ejection go on to long. If the coach wants to act childish shut him down ASAP.

Also, I would not have let the pitching change occur.....as stupid as that may sound. I would seriously have considered ejecting the coach still in the game. There's some type of rule in Federation that does not allow you to have anything electronic unless it's scorekeeping I believe.

[jaybird_1981]

You are right I probably did let it go one time too long and I should have ejected the assistant as well. But this isn't really a high level of play it is Little League Minors. And I actually believe the assistant was clueless and if I ejected him they really didn't have another coach so I would hate to have to call the game.

[LMSANS]

You let the initial ejection go on to long. If the coach wants to act childish shut him down ASAP.

Also, I would not have let the pitching change occur.....as stupid as that may sound. I would seriously have considered ejecting the coach still in the game. There's some type of rule in Federation that does not allow you to have anything electronic unless it's scorekeeping I believe.

That's in the coaches box or on the field.

[BrianC14]

Well, I can't speak to LL, but in FED rules, once a coach has been ejected, he cannot have any contact with the team - - and using a cell phone doesn't make that OK....

...I think that a HS coach would surely know the difference. If not, then Mr. AC is going to join Mr. HC.

[therefump]

You are right I probably did let it go one time too long and I should have ejected the assistant as well. But this isn't really a high level of play it is Little League Minors. And I actually believe the assistant was clueless and if I ejected him they really didn't have another coach so I would hate to have to call the game.

Well, gotta say, :wow:I admire the fact that you wanted to keep the game going. I have done that on occasion at the lower levels. When a coach is getting paid (High School, Legion (yes, Legion), etc.) then it's a different story. They allegedly know what's going on.

Also, LMSANS (Larry) is correct about electronic devices. I couldn't remember the exact ruling but he's got it.:agasp_:

[someoneinca]

You were definitely justified.

Also, electronic communication with people on the field is prohibited during LL games. So even if the manager was sick and at home the AC can't talk to him.

[blindumpire99]

Well one thing that I would point out is no matter what the level of ball, an umpire should NEVER tell a coach to "come here...." ect..

Reason being very simple. Even in the above sitch where it sounds like you had plenty enough to EJ him, if you call a coach to you and then dump him, no matter how justified that you may be, it gives the appearance that you "baited him" into the trip to the showers or the house (whatever you want to call it.)

If a coach wants to stand "X" amount of distance away and argue, I say let him. If/when he crosses "the line" ----. It makes no difference to me if he's in front of me, unless he is literally in my face, and THAT will get him dumped just for that violation.

If, as you described in your sitch, he tells you to come to him, that constitutes showing you up by belittling you, IMHO, and that should get him a . IF you go to the coach because he is demanding it, it shows weakness on your part and you have allowed said rat coach to show you up and embarrass you. If he doesn't want to listen to the rule explanation -move on!

I subscribe wholeheartedly to the wisdom of our leader here in that, #1, you always use the EJ as a last resort, BUT, #2, you will never regret the EJ's that you make, but you will always regret the ones that you should have made - but didn't.

I also disagree with the "wisdom" of those ( I don't believe that we have that individual on this forum) who says that an EJ is usually because the umpire was wrong or fouled up. Sure it could happen --but highly unlikely. I think it's more of the rat coaches have been watching too much MLB and aspire to be the next Lou or Bobby:shakehead:

I've never Ej'ed anyone in my years. They've always done it to themselves

Just my $0.02 (before taxes and Obama taking it to redistribute the wealth)

[Umpire in Chief]

Blind ump took the wind out of my sails. Nearly exactly what I was thinking.

The coach calling you to him is an attempt to show you up. I'd suggest replying with something like, "Coach if you need to talk come over here, but you're not going to yell from over there." This way you're both being accommodating and stern and you've given him enough rope to hang himself with. If he continues ...gone.

[catoblue]

Yes you were more than justified in your EJ - and I'd have likely dumped him the first time he said "no, you come here". Your invitation for him to come over so you could explain it was all the second chance he should have gotten. You were being reasonable, he was being a rat.

As for the AC, I think you handled it correctly based on it being a LL Minors game. The AC's are generally just dad's helping out. They aren't generally invited to coaches meetings/clinics, aren't provided with rule books, or given much by way of any kind of guidance. They help run drills at practice and keep the kids in line on the bench. Now, after you told him no more cell phone... if he had continued, that would have warranted punching his ticket too.

[umpirecordova]

About the cell phone to the AC I know in my area during certain (Cal Ripken) tournaments if you are caught with any electronic device in the dugout including cellphone, headset, etc. you are to eject the coach as soon as you see him on it, regardless who he is talking to.

[jaybird_1981]

Blind ump took the wind out of my sails. Nearly exactly what I was thinking.

The coach calling you to him is an attempt to show you up. I'd suggest replying with something like, "Coach if you need to talk come over here, but you're not going to yell from over there." This way you're both being accommodating and stern and you've given him enough rope to hang himself with. If he continues ...gone.

I think I did kind of do it that way. I can't remember my exact phrase but it was along the lines of if you want to discuss it then you need to come here instead of yelling from there.

This coach had problems last year I found out later where he had been ejected. I question why he is still allowed around the children. It is pretty obvious he is in it for his own glory and no the kids.

Most coaches know me as a very reasonable guy. I have no problem explaining any rule that they disagree on if they go about it the right way.

Thanks for the responses guys, I like hearing better ways to handle a situation!

[christheump]

Well one thing that I would point out is no matter what the level of ball, an umpire should NEVER tell a coach to "come here...." ect..

Reason being very simple. Even in the above sitch where it sounds like you had plenty enough to EJ him, if you call a coach to you and then dump him, no matter how justified that you may be, it gives the appearance that you "baited him" into the trip to the showers or the house (whatever you want to call it.)

If a coach wants to stand "X" amount of distance away and argue, I say let him. If/when he crosses "the line" ----. It makes no difference to me if he's in front of me, unless he is literally in my face, and THAT will get him dumped just for that violation.

If, as you described in your sitch, he tells you to come to him, that constitutes showing you up by belittling you, IMHO, and that should get him a B). IF you go to the coach because he is demanding it, it shows weakness on your part and you have allowed said rat coach to show you up and embarrass you. If he doesn't want to listen to the rule explanation -move on!

I subscribe wholeheartedly to the wisdom of our leader here in that, #1, you always use the EJ as a last resort, BUT, #2, you will never regret the EJ's that you make, but you will always regret the ones that you should have made - but didn't.

I also disagree with the "wisdom" of those ( I don't believe that we have that individual on this forum) who says that an EJ is usually because the umpire was wrong or fouled up. Sure it could happen --but highly unlikely. I think it's more of the rat coaches have been watching too much MLB and aspire to be the next Lou or Bobby:shakehead:

I've never Ej'ed anyone in my years. They've always done it to themselves

Just my $0.02 (before taxes and Obama taking it to redistribute the wealth)

Well said......

[mstaylor]

I had a problem with a coach last night and I told him if he wanted to discuss the call, fine, if not he could return to the coach's box.

Anything else would draw an ejection.