should i have tossed him?

[bigblue89]

So today should have been a great milestone day, my first varsity game EVER! I will admit yes i was nervous but i was at a field that i have been at and played at many times. I know the coaches pretty good on both sides pretty well so it puts me at a little more ease. The field has a couple quirks, tree branches hanging down in play (ground rule is play like a wall) and in left center there is an opening in the rock wall (about 325 feet away up a hill, ive never seen anyone hit it there).

Runner on 2nd so im in C, batter rocks a hit in the air right to the gap in the wall in the air. From where i am and judging by where the ball lands and where F7 is i call it a HR. As soon as the BR touches home i get the appeal (2 man crew mind you and im on the bases) so i converse with my partner and he had from where he was it looked like a HR as well. So i keep my call and the home coach looses it (i did expect it though so i was ready) first starts yelling that it bounced thru, i hold my ground and said it went through on the fly, then he comes up with the statement "the parents out there said it rolled through" not baiting him i asked him if he wanted them to put their input in on all calls, he looked stunned and said no. At that point i said coach its done im keeping my call thats it.

This is where my question comes into play. As i turned the coach turned and whips his helmet at the dugout (not near anyone and certainly not near me) at that point should i have dumped him? Some people said yes some people said no so i want some input from people that matter. As far as the call was concerned, 2 officials from a softball game where about 10 feet from the wall during the hit and they both told me i got the call right, i was pretty happy about that.

[spiritump]

I do not think you should of tossed him-----the way I like to handle a situation like thay is to say "coach I will go for help but before I do I have to ask you to go to your dugout and if we do not change the call that is the end of it". If he then comes out after you do not change your call-- dump him.

[UmpJM]

bigblue,

When any participant throws any equipment to express his displeasure with your call, it's an automatic, no doubt about, no-brainer, instant ejection.

Really.

JM

[SnareDrum]

bigblue,

When any participant throws any equipment to express his displeasure with your call, it's an automatic, no doubt about, no-brainer, instant ejection.

Really.

JM

Exactly. Coach may have thought he could bully the rookie. But if a coach throws his helmet, throw the coach. He was practically daring you to toss him. Oblige him.

But, great job on standing your ground!

[Paperipper17]

+1. He throws the helmet, he's gone.

[jnazz]

Words of wisdom that I once got............... if you're second guessing yourself for not dumping him, you probably should've dumped him.

IMHO, run him.

[mtnump]

Bye-Bye!!! That is an easy report to fill out...

May have made it harder for you knowing the coach as you said. Someone you don't know, I doubt you would have even hesitated.

[archangel]

I do not think you should of tossed him-----the way I like to handle a situation like thay is to say "coach I will go for help but before I do I have to ask you to go to your dugout and if we do not change the call that is the end of it". If he then comes out after you do not change your call-- dump him.

I dont think this is good advice.

The coach is already upset and has come out of the dugout to ask you to check with your partner (who, is what, 100+ ft farther away?). You then say, in essence, "Go sit down and dont complain if you dont get your way"? That could sound to any coach that you've already made up your mind and PU's input wont change that.

I'll deal with issues when they come up, not "warn" a coach about his future possible actions....

[spiritump]

I do not think you should of tossed him-----the way I like to handle a situation like thay is to say "coach I will go for help but before I do I have to ask you to go to your dugout and if we do not change the call that is the end of it". If he then comes out after you do not change your call-- dump him.

I dont think this is good advice.

The coach is already upset and has come out of the dugout to ask you to check with your partner (who, is what, 100+ ft farther away?). You then say, in essence, "Go sit down and dont complain if you dont get your way"? That could sound to any coach that you've already made up your mind and PU's input wont change that.

I'll deal with issues when they come up, not "warn" a coach about his future possible actions....

but this way the coach dumps himself--who looks like the one to pick a fight ?

[mtnump]

That bridge was crossed way back! The coach did come out, BU asked for help and call was confirmed. Coach throws anything in disgust, immediate ejection.

He can come out of the dugout, he can ask you to ask for help, he can start to argue...Now he gets his warning. Argument continues on a judgement call, bye-bye.

If you tell him to just go back in the dugout and wait for your call and not get upset, you are now going to have a sh$%storm on your hands before you ever ask for help.

[spiritump]

That bridge was crossed way back! The coach did come out, BU asked for help and call was confirmed. Coach throws anything in disgust, immediate ejection.

He can come out of the dugout, he can ask you to ask for help, he can start to argue...Now he gets his warning. Argument continues on a judgement call, bye-bye.

If you tell him to just go back in the dugout and wait for your call and not get upset, you are now going to have a sh$%storm on your hands before you ever ask for help.

I am not saying to tell him just go back to the dugout--I am saying "you do not agree with my cal,l by all means coach I will go to my partner and ask for assistance in this matter--but before I go and ask for help please go to your dugout and if my partner and I do not chance the call we play on" why let him continue to argue after you went for help --you did what he asked but because he did not like the answer you let him still argue???

[mstaylor]

As jnazz said, if you leave the game thinking maybe I should have tossed him, then you should have. Good job for holding your ground but you need to work on game management. When you checked with your partner, tell the coach that the PU has nothing to the contrary. DO NOT have a prolonged conversation over this. I don't have a problem with the coach saying he thought it bounced through, but, you need to say that isn't what you have, and it is time to play ball. Start to walk away. If the coach tries to say anything, hold your hand up and tell him the discussion is done. Then turn and go to your position. If he does anything, ANYTHING, throw something, yell at you or follow you, bang, gone.

I can understand not wanting an ejection in your first game but sometimes the coaches just won't cooperate. If you handle him correctly then most times he won't go too far.

[noumpere]

I do not think you should of tossed him-----the way I like to handle a situation like thay is to say "coach I will go for help but before I do I have to ask you to go to your dugout and if we do not change the call that is the end of it". If he then comes out after you do not change your call-- dump him.

I dont think this is good advice.

The coach is already upset and has come out of the dugout to ask you to check with your partner (who, is what, 100+ ft farther away?). You then say, in essence, "Go sit down and dont complain if you dont get your way"? That could sound to any coach that you've already made up your mind and PU's input wont change that.

I'll deal with issues when they come up, not "warn" a coach about his future possible actions....

Its exactly how its taught in college ball and I think should be used at all levels. I can speak from experience what happens when you dont do this

[Forest Ump]

I do not think you should of tossed him-----the way I like to handle a situation like thay is to say "coach I will go for help but before I do I have to ask you to go to your dugout and if we do not change the call that is the end of it". If he then comes out after you do not change your call-- dump him.

I dont think this is good advice.

The coach is already upset and has come out of the dugout to ask you to check with your partner (who, is what, 100+ ft farther away?). You then say, in essence, "Go sit down and dont complain if you dont get your way"? That could sound to any coach that you've already made up your mind and PU's input wont change that.

I'll deal with issues when they come up, not "warn" a coach about his future possible actions....

Its exactly how its taught in college ball and I think should be used at all levels. I can speak from experience what happens when you dont do this

That's exactly right and is the professional way to handle any request to get help. Asking for help is arguing; make it be known that arguing will not continue after you render your call with no change. If the call does go his way, then you and your partner go to the other coach and explain it to him before changing your call.

[Guest]

The general rule of thumb for crew consultations is that the manager of a team who has the call go against them comes out, he cannot argue; he is only permitted to ask for an explanation.

I do find your comment about wanting to know if you should be asking the fans for their input on all calls to be baiting (suppose the reply is "sure, because you clearly don't have a clue" - there's an unnecessary ejection), but nothing substantial worthy of any sort of reprimand. That said, I wouldn't use that line in my first career varsity (or equivalent / higher skill level) game.

IMO, in this situation, it would have been best served to just say to the manager flat out (and not as bluntly as I'm about to put it), I was in position, got a decent look, made sure my partner had nothing to the contrary, and ruled the way I did. If you're out here, you're either out here for an explanation (in which case, shut up so I can talk) or to "put on the show" (which you can engage in with him to various levels according to your comfort level).

If they want to throw a tantrum, they can do it in the dugout where no one can see them. On the field, if a glove, batting gloves, hat, helmet...anything...goes flying after a call that's close, the offender can leave as well, like others have said. But please, at this level, don't be "that" guy who ejects the player whose just gone 0-4 with 3 K's and throws his helmet in disgust at a routine ground-out.

[bigblue89]

Thank you every one for giving me your input, i've really read and studied every thing every one has said. I know now looking back at it i should have dumped him but now i know for sure it would have been right too. Again thank you all very much