Foul tip caught by catcher

[craig]

I just looked up the difference between a foul tip ON STRIKE THREE caught by the catcher and a foul ball caught by any fielder.  The rule stated that the foul tip caught on strike three is an out and is a LIVE BALL.  Now, let's keep going.  There is a man on first base who advances as the pitch to the batter is made in trying to steal second.

Why is the foul tip caught different from a pop up foul out caught by a fielder?  Doesn't the base runner need to return to first and tag up on a foul out?  If so, why not a foul tip out?

Craig

[beerguy55]

First - your post title is redundant - being caught by the catcher is a requirement of a foul tip...otherwise it's just a foul ball.

The short answer to your question is, because those are the rules.  A foul tip on ANY strike is a live ball, and is not a "catch" for the purposes of making an out on a batted ball.

If I were to speculate to the reason - it would be patently unfair to the base runners to apply the tag-up standard to a foul tip.  Not to mention the chaos it would cause.

The game would be SH*#tier if that rule was changed.

 

 

[noumpere]

99.99% of the time (and perhaps over 100% of the time for those posting in the "Ask the Umpire" forum), a foul tip is the same as a "swing and a miss."  You'd allow the steal on a swinging K, so allow it on the foul tip.

[Central Cal Umpire]

The general reason a foul tip is different from a foul ball is that the mechanics of the foul tip are basically no different from a swing and miss. Other than the fact that the bat grazes the ball, there's no other practical difference. The catcher still catches the ball and no one has a chance to make any appreciable reaction other than as if the ball was missed in the moment. Action doesn't really change on a foul tip than on a swing and miss, so it's treated the same as a swinging strike with no contact.

The reason the foul tip was implemented is that in the early days of baseball there were catchers who were mimicking the sound of a foul tip to get the umpire to call foul ball outs on swing and misses at a time when a foul tip was still treated the same as any other foul ball and an out could be recorded for catching a bat-contacted ball in foul territory before it hit the ground.

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, Central Cal Umpire said:

The reason the foul tip was implemented is that in the early days of baseball there were catchers who were mimicking the sound of a foul tip to get the umpire to call foul ball outs on swing and misses at a time when a foul tip was still treated the same as any other foul ball and an out could be recorded for catching a bat-contacted ball in foul territory before it hit the ground.

Reference, please.

 

This is from JEA:

The rules of 1896 defined a foul tip as a foul ball that does not rise above the batsman's head and is caught by the catcher within ten feet of home plate.

 

The basis of the rule as it is enforced today appeared in the 1897 revision and defined a foul tip as a batted ball that goes "...foul sharp from the bat to the catcher's hands."

 

In 1904, the rules described a foul tip as a batted ball that goes sharp and direct to the catcher's hands. It is interesting to note that the catcher's glove is not mentioned as many receivers of that era were not using them. The 1950 revision explained that it was not considered a foul tip if the ball rebounded off any of the catcher's equipment and was then secured. If it hit his glove or hand first, rebounded, and was subsequently secured, it was considered a legal catch and a foul tip rather than a foul ball.

[Central Cal Umpire]

On 5/2/2025 at 7:57 AM, noumpere said:

Reference, please.

Connie Mack for one.

"He was also cunning, though he cultivated a clean-cut image. He mimicked the sound of a foul tip and was so proficient at catching them that the N.L. changed its rule so that a batter was no longer out if the catcher snagged a foul tip with fewer than two strikes."

Connie Mack – Society for American Baseball Research

Also from a book by Norman Macht called Connie Mack and the Early Years of Baseball 

[LSUbaseballFAN]

A foul tip caught by the catcher?? That’s exactly what a foul“tip” is… there is no such thing as a dropped foul “tip”