Cather Interference with Bases Loaded

[Mudder]

OBR, bases loaded, 1 out, catcher IF is called when the batter hits a weak grounder to the infield, who throw home to get R3 on the force out, all other runners, incl BR, advance one base

All runners, incl BR, did not get at least 1 base.

1. Do you accept the play or enforce CI?

2.Does the offensive coach have an option, if so what is it?

3. Do you only present the option if the coach asks you for the option, or do you present him the option whether he asks or not?

[ArchAngel72]

1. enforce the CI

Do you think the coach is gonna take an out and no run scored?

 

[Jimurray]

29 minutes ago, Mudder said:

OBR, bases loaded, 1 out, catcher IF is called when the batter hits a weak grounder to the infield, who throw home to get R3 on the force out, all other runners, incl BR, advance one base

All runners, incl BR, did not get at least 1 base.

1. Do you accept the play or enforce CI?

2.Does the offensive coach have an option, if so what is it?

3. Do you only present the option if the coach asks you for the option, or do you present him the option whether he asks or not?

As to 3, some levels you ask, other levels such as MLB, the coach has to ask. In your OP I doubt anyone would want the play.

As to 1 and 2:

"6.01(c) Catcher Interference

The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when the catcher or any fielder interferes with him. If a play follows the interference, the manager of the offense may advise the plate umpire that he elects to decline the interference penalty and accept the play. Such election shall be made immediately at the end of the play. However, if the batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batsman, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, the play proceeds without reference to the interference. Rule 6.01(c) Comment: If catcher’s interference is called with a play in progress the umpire will allow the play to continue because the manager may elect to take the play. If the batterrunner missed first base, or a runner misses his next base, he shall be considered as having reached the base, as stated in Note of Rule 5.06(b)(3)(D). Examples of plays the manager might elect to take:   1.  Runner on third, one out, batter hits fly ball to the outfield on which the runner scores but catcher’s interference was called. The offensive manager may elect to take the run and have batter called out or have runner remain at third and batter awarded first base.   2.  Runner on second base. Catcher interferes with batter. As he bunts ball fairly sending runner to third base. The manager may rather have runner on third base with an out on the play than have runners on second and first"

[JSam21]

1) We enforce the penalty.

2) The offensive head coach has the option to take the result of the play.

3) Their options are the penalty or play. I am in the school of we just enforce the penalty and let them come to us. 

[MadMax]

On 8/15/2024 at 12:47 PM, Mudder said:

All runners, incl BR, did not get at least 1 base.

That’s not quite the correct requirement. 

If we have R1 & R3, and a CI batted ball occurs, if, say F5 fields it, looks back R3 (and freezes him there), and fires across to F3… 

• if BR beats it out (called safe), CI is disregarded. Play stands. Now R123 (bases loaded), no additional outs.
• if BR is put Out (by caught throw beating him or tagged) prior to 1B, then Umpires call “Time”, announce CI, and enforce the penalty – R123 (bases loaded), no additional outs. 

The/any advance of R3, unforced, is not a required component of whether or not to enforce CI. 

On 8/15/2024 at 3:35 PM, JSam21 said:

3) Their options are the penalty or play. I am in the school of we just enforce the penalty and let them come to us.

I’m with you, when working anything NCAA or (professionally) higher. However, in amateur baseball (18U, NAIA, Adult non-pro), more often than not, when CI occurs, the ball is either fouled off, or the participants stop playing (Runners stop running, et. al.). Once “Time” is called, there isn’t an (beneficial) option to take, and the penalty is the resolution. In this amateur context, you (we umpires) can certainly explain that an option exists, and what the results would be should the penalty be enforced vs. should the optional “results of the play” be taken. Everyone’s the wiser for it. 

[Velho]

37 minutes ago, MadMax said:

The/any advance of R3, unforced, is not a required component of whether or not to enforce CI. 

🤔

As @Jimurray posted (and I've screenshotted OBR for reference), no forced aspect. The requirement is unrequited advance to ignore. (unless I'm missing something)

 

 

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, MadMax said:

 

The/any advance of R3, unforced, is not a required component of whether or not to enforce CI. 

 

It isn't a factor in your OP but this is still CI. Let's have the BR miss 1B and be called safe with an appeal just after where he is called out. The batter and R1 advanced but since R3 didn't the CI would be enforced and the appeal out would be negated.

[MadMax]

2 hours ago, Velho said:

The requirement is unrequited advance to ignore.

Hold on, I don’t see the results being different. 

2 hours ago, Jimurray said:

It isn't a factor in your OP but this is still CI.

I get it that the defense can’t benefit (get an Out) off a CI being enforced. 
Say there’s R2 only, with CI batted ball to F6. With R2 thinking that, with CI he can “freely advance”, he gets caught in a run-down between 2B and 3B, and tagged Out. BR reaches 1B. 

Walk me (us) through this. 

I fail to see how the resolution is different, if on the same situation & play, instead of R2 being tagged Out, he’s looked back to 2B, and BR is thrown Out at 1B. 
“Time!” is called. CI is called, and BR is awarded 1B. We don’t also award 3B to R2, but that’s what this discussion is reading like. 

[Velho]

8 hours ago, MadMax said:

I fail to see how the resolution is different, if on the same situation & play, instead of R2 being tagged Out, he’s looked back to 2B, and BR is thrown Out at 1B. 
“Time!” is called. CI is called, and BR is awarded 1B. We don’t also award 3B to R2, but that’s what this discussion is reading like. 

No, not arguing unforced runners advanced. We're talking about something much more minor and borderline irrelevant (though, imo, not full blown mierenneuken, Cliff Clavin-ing, whatever you want to call it).

We get to the same place. The runners are where they are supposed to be. You simply skipped the pageantry.

 

Let me ask about a scenario where you don't call time: R3, CI, F6 looks back R3, BR safe as F3 drops the ball. F2 turns to discuss the implications of CI while a) in continuous action or b) after plays stops, F3 throws home to get R3 who is taking advantage of the confusion, defense recovers and tags R3 out.

What do you do now in each of a) and b)?

Would it have been better to call time as the play completed at 1B? Which I'd argue is enforcing CI even though you aren't reposting runner.

 

Further, I know we "don't care about Section 9" - which I actively don't in LL - but I'm guessing college and pros do (and HS probably shouldn't but they do). The play standing on an error vs CI changes OBP, ERA, and fielding errors statistics.

[MadMax]

1 hour ago, Velho said:

We get to the same place. The runners are where they are supposed to be. You simply skipped the pageantry.

I made a critical error, and oversight. I ignored the “bases loaded” component of the OP’s ( @Mudder’s ) situation, and when presented with this statement – 

On 8/15/2024 at 12:47 PM, Mudder said:

All runners, incl BR, did not get at least 1 base.

Isolated, on its own, like it was, it read like Mudder was citing it as the sole criterion for enforcing CI. 

It is not. It is a criterion when all Runners are forced, surely, like in his OP, but when stated as the lone criterion like that, to a new umpire, it implies that we (umpires) are to advance all Runners (at least) one base if/when enforcing the penalty. 

That’s true of (Live ball) Balks; not true of CI. 

So, my mistake; but, there’s my clarification.