When is a swing not a strike?

[love to ump]

Have had it happen twice in past ten days, once in LL & once in Men's League.

Batter wants a swing called a strike, even though they had no intention or even remote possibility of hitting the pitch...different reasons for doing it, one wants dropped third strike, one wants to avoid taking walk.

What rule or definition am I calling on to deny it?

[maven]

Definition of a strike. It's an "offer" at a pitch, which entails intent to hit it (however fleeting the intention might be on, for instance, a check swing).

Other (spurious, gaming the game) reasons for swinging are not offers.

[wolfe_man]

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[love to ump]

Thank you Maven...that is what I was trying to explain to my partner last night," offer at the pitch"...as he is scrolling thru definitions of what makes a strike....

[Velho]

1 hour ago, wolfe_man said:

This post reminds me of the viral video where a pitch is really outside and obviously not a strike, but the batter halfheartedly swings and gets rang up by the U1 for "making an offer"

By "halfheartedly" do you mean jokingly like this (which may be the video you're referring to): 

 

[834k3r]

9 hours ago, love to ump said:

Have had it happen twice in past ten days, once in LL & once in Men's League.

Batter wants a swing called a strike, even though they had no intention or even remote possibility of hitting the pitch...different reasons for doing it, one wants dropped third strike, one wants to avoid taking walk.

What rule or definition am I calling on to deny it?

Swings lead to strikes. Strikes lead to outs. Outs lead to quick innings. Quick innings lead to early games. Early games lead to earlier beer and barbeque.

[wolfe_man]

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[agdz59]

That video runs counter to what Maven said. So which is it? Seems to me if there is a swing, you have a strike. Intent isn't a consideration.

[wolfe_man]

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[love to ump]

second line of Maven's answer..."gaming the game"...is the antidote to the "a swing is a swing is a swing'

The LL player thought he was so smart....left hand batter. pitch is behind him in dirt....swings over the plate and sprints to first....

[love to ump]

and yes I want the earlier beer and BBQ....but not all strikes lead to quicker outs!!!!

[maven]

2 hours ago, agdz59 said:

That video runs counter to what Maven said. So which is it? Seems to me if there is a swing, you have a strike. Intent isn't a consideration.

The video is from a pro game, and is not necessarily scalable to amateur or youth baseball. 

You'll have to use your judgment. A swing is a swing, so if you need a strike you have cover. But I tend not to reward shenanigans or jackassery, and will frustrate efforts in that direction. The call will depend on context.

Sometimes, you just gotta umpire.

[MadMax]

On 7/11/2024 at 2:39 PM, maven said:

and is not necessarily scalable to amateur or youth baseball. [snip]

The call will depend on context.

17U Fall Classic Academic All-Star “Game”. 13 innings in length. MBO, with separate fielder/hitter “pool” and pitching “pool”. Runs in and of themselves didn’t matter. 6-batter threshold (I can’t remember if 3 Outs ended the inning as well). HBP could be counted as a Ball (Dead), instead of an award of 1B. 

Drawing a walk was not a desired outcome. 

As the night and innings wore on, the pitch quality faltered, and there were a lot of 3-0 counts. The (my) zone would stretch – without complaint – so as to get a (next) better pitch (hopefully). 

Late in the game (10+?), a particular batter said to me as he entered the box, “Call everything a strike”. I replied, “I won’t go gross.” “Works for me”, he said. 

This “fudging” became a trend, as the pitch quality started to really wane. Several batters started to take “token” swings at “stupid” pitches, just to keep from taking a walk. I picked up on – these kids didn’t want to necessarily take bad swings, because they wanted to maintain form – since there were (supposedly) scouts and coaches watching. One such batter, a really confident, gregarious kid, had the count go to 3-0. On the fourth pitch – well off target – he looked back at me with a sly grin after I called “ball out”, and asked, “Did I go?” I met his eyes, and relayed to my BU partner (in A), “Did… he… go?” (spaced out for effect)… My fellow Vulture and BU partner figured out exactly what was going on, and responded, “Yes he did!” 
Next pitch… repeat. “Did he go?” “Yup!” 

I don’t remember how this resolved, but the “game” completed, without incident, gripe, or complaint. This was about the performance of baseball players, not about the score. This is the kind of attitude that should be in (most of) the amateur game(s), outside of actual sanctioned contests or leagues. 

Context matters.