Ohtani, Ohtani's interpreter, $4.5M in gambling debts...and Pete Rose

[umpstu]

53 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Not sure what this has to do with my statement about illegal gambling...all of Rose's gambling in the 80's was illegal.  Not just MLB-illegal...federal/state law illegal.

There's no evidence in the Dowd Report, or anywhere else, that Rose bet on the Reds to lose.  However, though Rose claimed to have bet on EVERY game, the evidence suggests that there were many times where Rose did NOT place a bet on his Reds team.   That, in itself, would indicate to other gamblers, and bookmakers, that Rose doubted the outcome of those games - it might even rise to insider information to things like the health or effectiveness of someone in the lineup. I suspect that every time Rose failed to wager on the Reds, the bookmakers shifted their lines noticeably.

There is no evidence that the Reds lost every single time he failed to bet, so it's unlikely he was pressured to influence those games negatively.

There is evidence that he bet while he was a player/manager during the 1986 season, though Rose claimed he only started betting after he became a full-time manager the following season. Some people, including Rose, feel betting as a player vs as a manager is an important distinction.  I do not.

Neither do I. 

[Aging_Arbiter]

Here is Giamatti's statement....

'The banishment for life of Pete Rose from baseball is the sad end of a sorry episode. One of the game's greatest players has engaged in a variety of acts which have stained the game, and he must now live with the consequences of those acts. By choosing not to come to a hearing before me, and by choosing not to proffer any testimony or evidence contrary to the evidence and information contained in the report of the Special Counsel to the Commissioner, Mr. Rose has accepted baseball's ultimate sanction, lifetime ineligibility.

 

Maybe it's just me.  When you die, your LIFE is over.  Your LIFETIME has ended. Therefore, banishment has ended.

Put Pete In

my .02

[Replacematt]

30 minutes ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

Here is Giamatti's statement....

'The banishment for life of Pete Rose from baseball is the sad end of a sorry episode. One of the game's greatest players has engaged in a variety of acts which have stained the game, and he must now live with the consequences of those acts. By choosing not to come to a hearing before me, and by choosing not to proffer any testimony or evidence contrary to the evidence and information contained in the report of the Special Counsel to the Commissioner, Mr. Rose has accepted baseball's ultimate sanction, lifetime ineligibility.

 

Maybe it's just me.  When you die, your LIFE is over.  Your LIFETIME has ended. Therefore, banishment has ended.

Put Pete In

my .02

No. There is no such thing as a lifetime ban. It is being placed on the permanently ineligible list. That is what is on the agreement Rose himself signed. PERMANENT. Not life.

[Aging_Arbiter]

On 3/30/2025 at 12:06 PM, Replacematt said:

No. There is no such thing as a lifetime ban. It is being placed on the permanently ineligible list. That is what is on the agreement Rose himself signed. PERMANENT. Not life.

We can argue semantics all day long.  I just copied and pasted Giamatti's statement from when it was published. 

[Replacematt]

1 hour ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

We can argue semantics all day long.  I just copied and pasted Giamatti's statement from when it was published. 

It's not semantics. It's what the agreement says. If you're using the language to argue that the ban is over, you're incorrect--that's the exact opposite of semantics.

[Velho]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/45115659/pete-rose-shoeless-joe-jackson-players-reinstated-mlb

Pete Rose, 'Shoeless' Joe Jackson among players reinstated by MLB

MLB commissioner Rob Manfred has reinstated the late Pete Rose, allowing him to be considered for the Hall of Fame. Manfred also lifted bans on all deceased players, including "Shoeless" Joe Jackson and the 1919 Black Sox. (3:02)

Manfred ruled that MLB's punishment of banned individuals ends upon their deaths.

"Obviously, a person no longer with us cannot represent a threat to the integrity of the game," Manfred wrote in a letter to attorney Jeffrey M. Lenkov, who petitioned for Rose's removal from the list Jan. 8. "Moreover, it is hard to conceive of a penalty that has more deterrent effect than one that lasts a lifetime with no reprieve.

"Therefore, I have concluded that permanent ineligibility ends upon the passing of the disciplined individual, and Mr. Rose will be removed from the permanently ineligible list."

Manfred's decision ends the ban that Rose accepted from then-Commissioner A. Bartlett Giamatti in August 1989, following an MLB investigation that determined the 17-time All-Star had bet on games while managing the Cincinnati Reds.

 

[orangebird]

Excited for the Field of Dreams sequel

[The Man in Blue]

5 hours ago, Velho said:

"Obviously, a person no longer with us cannot represent a threat to the integrity of the game," Manfred wrote in a letter to attorney Jeffrey M. Lenkov, who petitioned for Rose's removal from the list Jan. 8. "Moreover, it is hard to conceive of a penalty that has more deterrent effect than one that lasts a lifetime with no reprieve.

"Therefore, I have concluded that permanent ineligibility ends upon the passing of the disciplined individual, and Mr. Rose will be removed from the permanently ineligible list."

Manfred's decision ends the ban that Rose accepted from then-Commissioner A. Bartlett Giamatti in August 1989, following an MLB investigation that determined the 17-time All-Star had bet on games while managing the Cincinnati Reds.

 

 

My disdain is no secret.  Sorry for crossing a line here . . . 

F U Rob "Little Man" Fred.

You and your predecessor were a far greater threat to the integrity of the game.  How magnanimous of you to bequeath us with your grace.  I still hold that this is a bigger slap in the face that has nothing to do with the integrity of the game.

 

[SeeingEyeDog]

Yup, @The Man in Blue...I would also like to add...wouldn't it be possible for someone to threaten the integrity of the game, document this, and then die and leave the documentation where it could be discovered and revealed? It could be an electronic record of some kind, left in the care of an attorney to be released to MLB, the press, etc. upon the person's death...

I understand re-instatement is not induction or enshrinement and I do like the notion of removing the dead from the ineligible list but, to say that a dead person cannot threaten the integrity of the game of baseball simply isn't true.

~Dawg