Did he declare, who cares.

[Jimurray]

SD PHL 2-21-22 Friday. B2, 2, 2 out R2 advances to 3B. Can't tell if time was called to notify teams that sideways pitcher Mussgrove was in the windup and can't tell if Mussgrove even declared as the live feed went all over the field. But the time frame seems to indicate that no obvious notice was given and relayed. Do I care? No. Good umpires and players can tell whether a pitcher is going to windup or stretch. The difference between Mussgrove's windup and stretch is subtle but you can decide right away which movement you would run on if, by chance , you wanted to steal home. But given the rule change to balk an absent declaration and the MLB instruction to call time and notify the teams, did that happen?

[Stk004]

I would assume the declaration did happen. Usually you’ll see the plate umpire signal up and down with both hands to indicate the windup. But with the playoff broadcast it’s impossible to know for sure 

[BrainFreeze]

16 hours ago, Stk004 said:

I would assume the declaration did happen. Usually you’ll see the plate umpire signal up and down with both hands to indicate the windup. But with the playoff broadcast it’s impossible to know for sure 

This 1000% 

Fox baseball is unwatchable.  Unless you want to know how many nose hairs your favorite player has.

[Velho]

14 hours ago, BrainFreeze said:

On 10/23/2022 at 1:36 PM, Stk004 said:

the playoff broadcast it’s impossible to know for sure 

This 1000% 

Fox baseball is unwatchable.  Unless you want to know how many nose hairs your favorite player has.

Por eso veo beisbol con el audio en español

[BrainFreeze]

That's funny you mention it -- SWMBO and I have already decided we're turning off the English audio and turning on the Spanish audio for the World Series.

[BigBlue4u]

On 10/21/2022 at 5:45 PM, Jimurray said:

SD PHL 2-21-22 Friday. B2, 2, 2 out R2 advances to 3B. Can't tell if time was called to notify teams that sideways pitcher Mussgrove was in the windup and can't tell if Mussgrove even declared as the live feed went all over the field. But the time frame seems to indicate that no obvious notice was given and relayed. Do I care? No. Good umpires and players can tell whether a pitcher is going to windup or stretch. The difference between Mussgrove's windup and stretch is subtle but you can decide right away which movement you would run on if, by chance , you wanted to steal home. But given the rule change to balk an absent declaration and the MLB instruction to call time and notify the teams, did that happen?

High school baseball has the answer.  For 2023 it will be easy to tell whether a pitcher is in a windup or set.  If his pivot foot is in front of, in contact with and parallel with the pitcher's plate, he is in a set.  Anything else is considered a windup.  There is no such thing as a "hybrid" stance in high school baseball.  It's something MLB should look into.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, BigBlue4u said:

High school baseball has the answer.  For 2023 it will be easy to tell whether a pitcher is in a windup or set.  If his pivot foot is in front of, in contact with and parallel with the pitcher's plate, he is in a set.  Anything else is considered a windup.  There is no such thing as a "hybrid" stance in high school baseball.  It's something MLB should look into.

There is no "answer". High school is slowly going the way of NCAA and MLB in accommodating sideways windup pitchers. HS will not accommodate the full sideways pitcher if the pivot foot is parallel but now will accommodate the "hybrid" angular pivot foot with a windup to the side. I'll leave it to our coaches, @beerguy55 and @Rich Ives to explain why this sideways tendency is seen more these days. 

[beerguy55]

20 hours ago, Jimurray said:

I'll leave it to our coaches, @beerguy55 and @Rich Ives to explain why this sideways tendency is seen more these days. 

Less moving parts...kind of like simplifying a golf swing...less things move around, less likely to mess up timing, or the final desired position/accuracy.

I encourage players just to start, and stay, in the stretch...unless the kid is a once-in-a-generation phenom he is going to spend most of his time pitching with runners on base...he may as well get adept at it.   If you're exponentially weaker pitching from the stretch, your problems just get compounded when people get on base.

[BigBlue4u]

22 hours ago, Jimurray said:

There is no "answer". High school is slowly going the way of NCAA and MLB in accommodating sideways windup pitchers. HS will not accommodate the full sideways pitcher if the pivot foot is parallel but now will accommodate the "hybrid" angular pivot foot with a windup to the side.

This information is absolutely incorrect.  There is no such thing as a "hybrid" stance in high school baseball. What is your source of this? (A no answer will indicate to me you just made it up or have a very questionable source!!)

[beerguy55]

30 minutes ago, BigBlue4u said:

This information is absolutely incorrect.  There is no such thing as a "hybrid" stance in high school baseball. What is your source of this? (A no answer will indicate to me you just made it up or have a very questionable source!!)

 Is your argument purely because the word "hybrid" doesn't appear in their ruleset?

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, BigBlue4u said:

This information is absolutely incorrect.  There is no such thing as a "hybrid" stance in high school baseball. What is your source of this? (A no answer will indicate to me you just made it up or have a very questionable source!!)

In years past High School has called the illegal position of the free foot in front of the rubber in the windup as a "hybrid" stance. They now will allow that free foot in the windup to be forward of the rubber, the pitcher canted full or partially sideways, as long as the pivot foot is not fully parallel to the rubber. While High School refers to it as "hybrid" I prefer to call it a "not square" or "sideways" pitcher and the rule change is to allow the pitcher to do that.

Edit added a source from NFHS for you:

"Rationale: In reference to the high school pitching rule, the position of both the pivot and non-pivot foot was the determining factor to deem if a pitcher was pitching from the windup position or the set position. The game has evolved throughout high school baseball for the pitcher to pitch with the pivot foot in a windup description with the non-pivot foot in a set description. This "hybrid" position was previously illegal by NFHS rule. What is important is that umpires, coaches, and players know what position the pitcher is using so they know which part of Rule 6 is in play. Deleting the use of the non-pivot foot does no damage to the existing pitching position rule and having only the pivot foot determine makes it clean and easily discernible for all involved."

[BigBlue4u]

On 11/3/2022 at 3:14 PM, Jimurray said:

In years past High School has called the illegal position of the free foot in front of the rubber in the windup as a "hybrid" stance. They now will allow that free foot in the windup to be forward of the rubber, the pitcher canted full or partially sideways, as long as the pivot foot is not fully parallel to the rubber. While High School refers to it as "hybrid" I prefer to call it a "not square" or "sideways" pitcher and the rule change is to allow the pitcher to do that.

Edit added a source from NFHS for you:

"Rationale: In reference to the high school pitching rule, the position of both the pivot and non-pivot foot was the determining factor to deem if a pitcher was pitching from the windup position or the set position. The game has evolved throughout high school baseball for the pitcher to pitch with the pivot foot in a windup description with the non-pivot foot in a set description. This "hybrid" position was previously illegal by NFHS rule. What is important is that umpires, coaches, and players know what position the pitcher is using so they know which part of Rule 6 is in play. Deleting the use of the non-pivot foot does no damage to the existing pitching position rule and having only the pivot foot determine makes it clean and easily discernible for all involved."

JM...

That's pretty close.  One of the reasons high school doesn't use the word "hybrid" is that there is no longer a consideration as to the placement of the non-pivot foot.  Beginning in 2023, if the pitcher's pivot foot is parallel, in front of, and in contact with the pitcher's plate, the pitcher is considered to be in a set position.  Anything else is considered a windup.  Thus, it's either or.  I think most umpires can appreciate the fact the new rule takes a lot of guesswork, as you mentioned, out of a pitcher's position, windup or set.

[Jimurray]

2 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

JM...

That's pretty close.  One of the reasons high school doesn't use the word "hybrid" is that there is no longer a consideration as to the placement of the non-pivot foot.  Beginning in 2023, if the pitcher's pivot foot is parallel, in front of, and in contact with the pitcher's plate, the pitcher is considered to be in a set position.  Anything else is considered a windup.  Thus, it's either or.  I think most umpires can appreciate the fact the new rule takes a lot of guesswork, as you mentioned, out of a pitcher's position, windup or set.

I'm confused. There was no guesswork in the previous HS rule but it was restrictive to the "evolution" of current pitching mechanics. I don't know why you focus on the word "hybrid" as the current NFHS "rationale" mentions it and earlier rulebook POEs, where it was illegal also mention it. I do understand why FED did not fully copy NCAA and MLB/OBR allowing a set foot position pitcher to windup if he declared. A Mussgrove at the HS level would trouble some umpires.