Coach Asking Umpire How to Appeal

[Dr. Blue]

Hey All!

 

Batter hits solo homerun but misses second base. Once the player entered his own dugout, the opposing coach yells "he missed second base, blue". I yell back "then appeal". The coach says he is appealing, clearly having no knowledge on how to properly execute a formal appeal. After some awkward silence, the coach asks me to how to appeal the call. 

What would you do? Would you walk this coach and team through the process of waiting until the ball is live, having the pitcher step off the rubber, and throw the ball to second base? Or would that cross the boundaries of being an non-biased individual, since you are essentially helping the team play the game?

 

I recognize the answer to this question may also depend on the level of play, but was wondering what your thoughts are on where to draw the line in a situation like this?

[Senor Azul]

From the 2016 BRD (section 8, p. 21):

Official Interpretation:  Wendelstedt:  The defense is required to make an appeal while the ball is in play. Failure to do so does not prohibit them from making the same appeal when the ball is put back in play. If the defense attempts to make an appeal while the ball is dead, the umpire will instruct them that in order to do so they must first put the ball back in play, i.e., make it alive.

[Dr. Blue]

3 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

From the 2016 BRD (section 8, p. 21):

Official Interpretation:  Wendelstedt:  The defense is required to make an appeal while the ball is in play. Failure to do so does not prohibit them from making the same appeal when the ball is put back in play. If the defense attempts to make an appeal while the ball is dead, the umpire will instruct them that in order to do so they must first put the ball back in play, i.e., make it alive.

Thanks for sharing this! The only thing this coach said was "I am appealing" without any actions made by the defense. Would you consider this an "attempt" at an appeal and then walk them through how to actually make a proper appeal?

[SH0102]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Blue said:

Hey All!

 

Batter hits solo homerun but misses second base. Once the player entered his own dugout, the opposing coach yells "he missed second base, blue". I yell back "then appeal". The coach says he is appealing, clearly having no knowledge on how to properly execute a formal appeal. After some awkward silence, the coach asks me to how to appeal the call. 

What would you do? Would you walk this coach and team through the process of waiting until the ball is live, having the pitcher step off the rubber, and throw the ball to second base? Or would that cross the boundaries of being an non-biased individual, since you are essentially helping the team play the game?

 

I recognize the answer to this question may also depend on the level of play, but was wondering what your thoughts are on where to draw the line in a situation like this?

I think saying “you can’t appeal until the ball is live/in-play” is fine, but a step by step tutorial? No.

We can’t coach players and certainly shouldn’t be or have to coach the coaches

[Senor Azul]

I agree with Mr. SHO102 in that some explanation is absolutely necessary but it shouldn’t be a tutorial.

Official Interpretation:  Lepperd:  If the defense does not follow correct appeal procedure, that does not preclude a second or third appeal on the same runner at the same base.

Official Interpretation:  Wendelstedt:  The “successive appeal” provision of (5.09c) refers to the defense throwing the ball out of play in an appeal attempt.

Play 7-8:  R1 stealing. B1 flies to the outfield. R1 has touched and rounded second when he realizes the ball was caught and he must return. He misses second on the way back and barely beats the throw to first. The umpire signals safe. Now F3, with the ball, tags first base again with his foot and says: “I appeal that he missed second coming back.” Ruling:  The umpire will not call out R1, but he should explain that the defense appealed improperly. At all levels the defense must tag the runner or second.

[The Man in Blue]

As usual, we need to know the rule set to give an exact answer ... For example, Fed does allow a verbal dead ball appeal -- see the "Penalty" section in 8.2 and/or 8.6(c). 

My question is why are you creating that headache for yourself?  Use the opportunity to not only help out the coach, but the rookie umpire who is going to have this coach tomorrow.  Honestly, these cases also help you make sure you are familiar and comfortable.

[aaluck]

On 5/24/2021 at 8:25 PM, Dr. Blue said:

I yell back "then appeal"

If this is high school baseball or FED rules he did appeal the moment he yelled 'he missed second'.

[LRZ]

On 5/24/2021 at 9:25 PM, Dr. Blue said:

What would you do? Would you walk this coach and team through the process of waiting until the ball is live, having the pitcher step off the rubber, and throw the ball to second base? Or would that cross the boundaries of being an non-biased individual, since you are essentially helping the team play the game?

"Coach, I'm not running a clinic."

[MadMax]

NFHS / Fed / High School rules allow for a Dead Ball appeal. This doesn’t mean that exclusively High School games have this, but any/all games played using or based on NFHS rules as the core set. Examples include Triple Crown, Perfect Game, and a myriad of other amateur tournaments, leagues, and events (I think American Legion uses NFHS as its core set, but I could be wrong). 

Outside this, if the game is being played under NCAA or OBR (“Major League”) rulesets as their core sets (College Summer Woodbat on the former; LL, USSSA on the latter), then the appeal must be made while the ball is Live, as all our colleagues have been pointing out. And, a fence-clearing HR is an event that makes the ball Dead. 

So! I’m in complete agreement that we (umpires) cannot walk them (the participants) thru how to make the appeal happen. However, the first, top priority or responsibility of being an umpire is to know the Status and Location of the ball. Status – is the ball Live or Dead? Location – if Live, where is it? These are the imperatives we must know. And – here’s the real key – we are at right and enabled to communicate that status. We do so often enough, especially in amateur baseball... “Ball’s Live, guys!” or “Ball’s still Dead, guys. We gotta make it Live first”. This is often heard after a foul ball, F1 gets a new ball, and immediately snaps a pickoff throw to 1B! Ball’s not Live yet, because the PU hasn’t put the ball back in play / signaled / called “Play”. 

My point is, it’s not coaching or instructing a team in how to do an appeal if we, as umpires, tell them what the status of the ball is. Frequently, we’ll hear fielders, or their coaches, telling their teammates to get the ball back to the pitcher, engage the rubber, step off... yadda yadda yadda. It’s perfectly alright and warranted to say, “Guys, the ball is (still) Live”. They figure it out pretty quick. Conversely, if the ball is Dead, then it’s perfectly alright and warranted to tell them, “You can appeal... we just have to make the ball Live first”. Most figure it out. There is the rare occasion where the PU has to say (to F1), “Well, get back on the rubber... “ 

Once they know the ball’s status, they figure out the appeal pretty quick. 

[The Man in Blue]

On 5/24/2021 at 8:25 PM, Dr. Blue said:

The coach says he is appealing ...

 

I missed that earlier.  I guess the appropriate reply at this point would be:

"Hubba hubba, coach."