Batter

[Guest Michael]

Can a batter square up to bunt and pull back and take a full swing?

[noumpere]

Under FED, NCAA, and OBR, yes.

 

Someone else will have to answer for LL, etc.

 

And. some local leagues prohibit it at some age levels.

[Velho]

Little League "Rule 2.00: A BUNT is a batted ball not swung at, but intentionally met with the bat and tapped slowly. The mere holding of the bat in the strike zone is not
an attempted bunt. (Tee Ball: Bunts are not permitted. Batters are not permitted to take a half-swing. If the umpire feels the batter is taking a half-swing, the batter
may be called back to swing again.)"

That's all I see about it in the rule book so legal in LL. Here's an older thread (it reinforces the above).

I don't want to rehash that thread, but locally in the San Jose area (I only do LL and 99% of that Majors (12U) and Minors (10U)), slash bunting is disallowed in Minors.

 

[Vegas_Ump]

It has been my experience in Little League that some leagues add a house rule prohibiting the "bunt then swing".  There is nothing in the basic Little League Rule book that prohibits this, and like other league cowboy rules, they do not apply during tournaments.

The board kept saying that it was dangerous.  I argued that the infielders needed to know how to defense this move in any contingency, and preventing them from practicing this would disadvantage them during All-Stars.

So, there is NO Little League rule that bars this move.  UIC's should challenge PIROOMA rules by the local board and get involved with that process.

Mike

Las Vegas

[beerguy55]

On 5/15/2021 at 10:11 AM, Vegas_Ump said:

The board kept saying that it was dangerous.  I argued that the infielders needed to know how to defense this move in any contingency, and preventing them from practicing this would disadvantage them during All-Stars.

It IS dangerous...though I do agree that banning in a league/area does disadvantage the teams going on to areas that allow it.  But the need to defense this is very limited in scope, and time.

It SHOULD be disallowed at LL minors for one reason  - LL is supposed to be a development league of skills necessary in the advancement of the players...the bunt/full swing maneuver is very rarely (if ever) used in the older leagues, HS, NCAA, pros, etc.  For a number of reasons...from there just isn't enough time, to if you do it the next pitch you see will be in your earhole.  So there's no need to use or develop it at LL (or equivalent age levels).  It's only used at young ages by coaches that want to take advantage of a specific set of skills (or lack thereof).  They're not teaching the kids anything that will be useful a couple of years down the road.  The older players are more knowledgeable, skilled, and athletically coordinated to play a distance that lets them both play a bunt, and a full hit.  So, keeping an inherently risky/dangerous play that has NO developmental value to the game of baseball is inane.  Removing it and alleviating the risk - as small or large as it may be - does not fundamentally change the game to ANY degree.  It only changes the game for some overly ambitious, competitive and predatory coaches.

Keep in mind, this is far different from a slap, which is still done from a bunt/modified stance (mostly) and involves a half/fractional swing to push balls past charging infielders...far less dangerous than a bunt/full swing to drive the ball between the eyes of Little Johnny who is still charging because his coach told him that's what you do on a bunt.   But even the slap loses its charm on 90 foot baselines, and is far more popular, and practical, in fastpitch than baseball. 

Even in fastpitch I've been a proponent of delaying teaching/allowing the bunt/slap...the younger kids are typically not as athletic so their half swing slap turns into a full swing...I want to wait until they're a bit stronger and more coordinated to control their swing...and the fielder is more coordinated to handle the hit at close range.

[Vegas_Ump]

I have seen this maneuver tried more in softball than LL baseball.

Mike

[beerguy55]

34 minutes ago, Vegas_Ump said:

I have seen this maneuver tried more in softball than LL baseball.

Mike

Yup - like I said, they're TRYING to slap (ie. bunt to half swing), and either inexperienced coaches are teaching it wrong, or the kids just don't get it yet, and it ends up being a fake bunt/full swing.   Even then, at NCAA and international there's very little fake bunt/slap - at best it's more about trying to direct a bunt past a charging infielder - when it is used it's tactical and situational...there's more outright slapping and running slaps.  So, I go back to my first point - there's very little reason to develop it at the young ages...it's only used as a tactic at those ages against weak teams, by coaches who spent most of their teen years as third stringers on bad teams.

I've run across hundreds of coaches...there's a type that does that, and a type that doesn't...and there's zero correlation to their on field results/success, nor to the colour of medal they end up with at the end of the season.   And there's no long-term correlation to the success of the players taught this.  This is a very high correlation to which coaches get ejected more.  And which teams have loud-mouthed parents.

[rhinolith]

The younger age leagues that I have umpired in refer to this as a “slash bunt” and it is illegal (clearly mentioned in their league rules).