Case Play from Facebook

[lawump]

This one was posted on Facebook.  I can also say that it has been discussed by numerous state offices.

PLAY:  The home team's pitcher is Jones and he is designated as the P/DH.  He pitches the first three innings and is batting in the fourth.  He gets a double.  His coach then comes out and says he wants to verbally terminate the DH and now wants to have a courtesy runner for Jones (who is still the pitcher of record).  Is this legal.

Several states filed a request for an official interpretation to the NFHS.  The NFHS has ruled that this is "legal".  I was NOT provided the NFHS rationale for their decision.  And, since I am no longer on the committee, I will not be getting it anytime soon.  I am just providing this so that one can properly adjudicate this situation.

[scrounge]

We don't really use CR's much at all in our area for HS games, so thankfully I haven't had to get too wrapped up in the numerous fierce debates on this on facebook, but this kinda makes sense to me.

By terminating the DH, the coach is essentially making the two-headed player one again, like substituting him for himself. So at that point, he's just a pitcher and can get a CR. The coach gave up his roster flexibility to gain the CR. 

[maven]

I'm not seeing why one might think this would be illegal. I don't know what "verbally terminate" means: I shudder to imagine coach terminating his DH in any more literal sense!

I guess someone might think that the move effectively rewrites the original lineup to a straight 9. We know we can't add a DH after the game starts, so maybe someone thinks it would be illegal to remove a DH? Because substitutions can already eliminate the role of DH, I would not be that person.

I don't imagine this situation will ever arise (I work in the same state as scrounge, so we won't see it). 

[JSam21]

2 hours ago, maven said:

I'm not seeing why one might think this would be illegal. I don't know what "verbally terminate" means: I shudder to imagine coach terminating his DH in any more literal sense!

I guess someone might think that the move effectively rewrites the original lineup to a straight 9. We know we can't add a DH after the game starts, so maybe someone thinks it would be illegal to remove a DH? Because substitutions can already eliminate the role of DH, I would not be that person.

I don't imagine this situation will ever arise (I work in the same state as scrounge, so we won't see it). 

The argument that I have seen, while I'm not a proponent of, is that it takes a substitution to eliminate the DH. 

[The Man in Blue]

Argument against (no personal preference so I’m not taking a stand):

Jones did not bat as the pitcher.  Jones batted as the DH.  CRs are not available to the DH.  You must treat the P and the DH as separate people even if they are the same person.

Language for terminating the DH:

If Jones was pitching and Thompson was DH, the coach could terminate the DH and let Jones run.  However, Jones does not enter on the bases as the pitcher; he enters as a pinch-runner.  You cannot use a courtesy runner for a pinch runner.

 

Caveat: I am using the 2018 book and do not have the precise updated verbiage from the 2020 book ... if 3-1-4(a) was changed with the 2020 rule, this may be wrong.

[maven]

5 hours ago, JSam21 said:

The argument that I have seen, while I'm not a proponent of, is that it takes a substitution to eliminate the DH. 

And that's wrong on its face. With the regular DH rule, if either play does the other's job (offense/defense), then the role of the DH is terminated. No substitution required. And a sub may come in for either player, provided he does just the one job. So a sub is not sufficient to terminate the DH.

[noumpere]

15 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Jones did not bat as the pitcher. 

That's not required.  You can have a sub bat for F1 and reach base, then sub starting F1 back in and get a CR.  That's "sort of" the OP, even though it was the "roles" being subbed and not also a different player.

[The Man in Blue]

8 hours ago, noumpere said:

That's not required.  You can have a sub bat for F1 and reach base, then sub starting F1 back in and get a CR.  That's "sort of" the OP, even though it was the "roles" being subbed and not also a different player.

EDITED for clarity (I hope):

I disagree with that.  F1 does not enter the bases as F1, he enters as a sub for the pinch hitter.  A courtesy runner is available to the pitcher (or catcher) of record from the preceding half inning.  F1 left the game for a pinch-hitter.  That pinch-hitter was not the pitcher of record, so no CR is available to him.  Once the pinch-hitter reaches base, F1 re-enters as a pinch-runner for the pinch-hitter, not as the pitcher.  He would not be a pitcher again until he takes the field in that position.  No CR is available for a pinch-runner.

However, I cannot find verbiage in the NFHS baseball book (beyond what I posted above, but that applies to the DH) to support either of our positions ... 

So, I have to go a little off the rails to say that is not allowed in softball where courtesy runners are very commonly used and the rules are better defined.  I know we cannot apply a softball rule, but there is a logic process there. (Which is completely illogical since courtesy runners are intended to speed up the offense to defense transition, not provide coaches with strategic loopholes.)