Scoring by tagging up on fly out

[Guest ATLROSS]

Runners on 2nd and 3rd, 1 out.  Fly out to center, runner from 3rd tags up and heads for home, runner on 2nd went half way.  Centerfielder throws to 2nd, and ball beats runner back to the bag. Runner on 3rd crossed the plate BEFORE runner at 2nd was out.  Does the run count, since runner on 2nd who went 1/2 way was forced back. 

[LRZ]

ATLROSS, please note that "force" is a term of art which is not applicable to a runner returning to tag up after a catch, as the catch of the BR's fly ball removes the force. Here is how OBR defines the term: "A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner."

OBR 5.08(b) has an approved ruling virtually identical to your query: "APPROVED RULING: One out, Jones on third, Smith on first, and Brown flies out to right field. Two outs. Jones tags up and scores after the catch. Smith attempted to return to first but the right fielder’s throw beat him to the base. Three outs. But Jones scored before the throw to catch Smith reached first base, hence Jones’ run counts. It was not a force play."

[Mister B]

Expect many new/young umpires to get this wrong. 

[Mussgrass]

I told someone just 2 nights ago that this is the most asked question on this site.

[The Man in Blue]

I’ve admitted it before so I will again ... for some reason this took me forever to straighten out in my head.  I swear when I was a kid ... yadda-yadda-yadda ... 

Here’s how I explain it: a FORCE play is a play in which a runner is forced to advance by the runner behind him.  Tagging up or re-tagging is not caused by a runner behind that runner.  It is an obligation, not a force.

[lawump]

There are a boatload of MiLB managers and NCAA Division 1 head coaches who don't know this rule.  I know from experience.  

[Vegas_Ump]

A force play is one where a runner must vacate his current base because the batter has become a batter-runner.

The play you describe is a continuous action appeal play.  The throw to second is an unmistakable appeal that R2 did not tag up.  Once the play is made, you have all three conditions of an appeal.

It's an appeal and not a force.

Sitch:  NCAA playoffs about a decade ago.  The same play happened where BOTH runners left early because the fly ball was a dying swan!  F8 made an incredible catch and threw to second for out #3.  Everybody thought that R3 did NOT score.  But in fact he did score a game tieing run.  The umps waited for the defense to clear the field thinking the game was over on the apparent "force play".  The umps were waiting for an advantageous 4th out on R3!  Had that happened, the game would have been over!  But since it didn't, the plate ump tossed a ball to the mound and said, "We are playing extra innings!"

Mike

Las Vegas

[spark2212]

On 7/24/2019 at 7:31 AM, Guest ATLROSS said:

Runners on 2nd and 3rd, 1 out.  Fly out to center, runner from 3rd tags up and heads for home, runner on 2nd went half way.  Centerfielder throws to 2nd, and ball beats runner back to the bag. Runner on 3rd crossed the plate BEFORE runner at 2nd was out.  Does the run count, since runner on 2nd who went 1/2 way was forced back. 

Yes. While runners are required to tag up on fly outs, since the batter is already out, there can be no force play. Therefore, this is a timing play.